Interview with Dilmohan "Dale" Grewal, March 27, 2019

Partial Transcript: Okay, so my name is Kelsey Bastien and I am sitting down with Dale Grewal at his house, um, in Downingtown.

Segment Synopsis: This section introduces the interviewer, Kelsey Bastien. It also introduces Dilmohan Grewal and some brief background of the interviewee.

Keywords: Downingtown, Pennsylvania; Shimla, India

Subjects: Downingtown (Pa.); Shimla (India)

Partial Transcript: Okay, and can you describe that for me?

Segment Synopsis: Grewal briefly explains his early life in India. Being separated from his family for most of his childhood, he describes living in his parents' village and living with his uncle who was an attorney in New Delhi. He then expands on living in New Delhi when his father and mother returned from Scotland, where his father attended medical school, and how Grewal attended school in India until he was a freshman in high school.

Keywords: Amish; Cardiology; Childhood; Education; Government of India; India; New Delhi; Scotland; Separation; Villages

Subjects: Childhood; Education; Families.; New Delhi (India)

Partial Transcript: My father transferred to Nigeria.

Segment Synopsis: Grewal remembers his time in Nigeria, where he and his family moved when Grewal was in the ninth grade when his father was employed by the World Health Organization. He talks about the beauty and lifestyle of Nigeria and the different people that he met during his experience. He talks about his ease of picking up the language and he also reminisces about his adventures in the Niger Republic with his brother Palvinder, where he and his brother observed the Fulani tribe.

Keywords: Cultural diversity; Education; Family reunification; Fulani Tribe; General Yakba "Jack" Dan-Yumma Gowon; Independence; Language acquisition; Niger Republic; Nigeria; Nomad; Post-colonialism; Sahara Desert; World Health Organization

Subjects: Childhood; Education; Emigration and immigration.; Families.; Immigrants; Nigeria

Partial Transcript: So, after Africa, where did you go from there?

Segment Synopsis: Grewal talks about moving to Toronto, Canada in 1974, joining his brother Palvinder who had recently moved there to continue his education. He explains how his father immigrated to America around the same time, as he gained employment at the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio in 1976. He then talks briefly about moving to Buffalo, New York before eventually settling in Rochester, New York. Grewal reflects on his struggles with malaria, which he contracted in Nigeria, but no one could diagnose it in Toronto, leaving him reliant on his brother's support and an old friend from Nigeria to eventually restore his health.

Keywords: Buffalo, New York; Canada; Cleveland Clinic; Cleveland, Ohio; Etobicoke Hospital (Ontario); George Brown College; Graphic arts; London, England; Malaria; Rochester Institute of Technology; Rochester, New York; Sibling relationships; Toronto, Ontario, Canada; University

Subjects: Buffalo (N.Y.); Education; Emigration and immigration.; Families.; Immigrants; London (England); Rochester (N.Y.); Toronto (Ont.)

Partial Transcript: As you're entering the United States, like what did you bring with you, other than your brother...

Segment Synopsis: Grewal reflects on his time in Nigeria, England, and Canada before immigrating to the United States. Grewal talks about the discrimination he faced in some countries, and the privileges that advantaged him in others. He especially focuses on the discrimination he faced in Toronto, where others hurt and harassed him because they thought he was Pakistani and called him "Paki," a derogatory term. He recounts soup and soda poured on his head and remembers the fear of traveling by himself. In the United States, he did not face such discrimination and looks fondly on the relief afforded to him in his new home.

Keywords: Caste systems; Classism; Discrimination; Equality; Indian; Pakistani; Racism; Stereotypes; Toronto, Canada

Subjects: Discrimination; Emigration and immigration.; Immigrants; Race relations; Racism

Partial Transcript: Did you have--when you decided to go to Rochester with Paul, um, did you have certain hopes or did that fear of discrimination follow you?

Segment Synopsis: Grewal talks about his fears of discrimination disappearing as he entered the United States and found many opportunities. Growing up in India he gained the idea that engineers, doctors, or other professionals found the most success in the United States. Grewal also speaks about his parents and how they taught him lessons about friendship, cleanliness, and charity so that he may find success in his adult life.

Keywords: Diversity; Education; First jobs; Generational changes; Individuality; Opportunity; Perseverance; Professionalism; Rochester Institute of Technology; Upward mobility

Subjects: Discrimination; Emigration and immigration.; Employment; Immigrants; Occupations; Race relations; Racism

Partial Transcript: Back to, to the train of thought, um, when did you come to the U.S.?

Segment Synopsis: Grewal remembers moving to Cleveland from Toronto in 1976. He reflects on Cleveland's similarities to India and the kindness he encountered from the Americans there. He got his first job in New Jersey at J. Josephson and Sons in 1978 after graduating from RIT with a bachelor's degree in graphic arts. His next job was in a very small town in Pennsylvania, which differed greatly from the city lifestyle he became accustomed to, making the job a poor fit for Grewal. He moved back to Toronto, working for four and a half years at Proctor & Gamble to escape the small town lifestyle of Pennsylvania and to avoid the grief of his mother dying from pancreatic cancer. Grewal continues to speak about his time working in America and how he needed to learn about the politics of smaller companies to successfully carry out his position. He then returned to the United States in 1985 in an attempt to earn his MBA at Drexel University. He became an American citizen in 1981.

Keywords: Altoona, Pennsylvania; Buffalo, New York; Cleveland, Ohio; Drexel University; Equality; Graphic arts; J. Josephson and Sons; Master of Business Administration (MBA); Mistakes; New Jersey; Pain; Pancreatic cancer; Proctor and Gamble; Relocation; Roaring Springs, Pennsylvania; Rochester Institute of Technology; United States citizenship

Subjects: Altoona (Pa.); Buffalo (N.Y.); Cleveland (Ohio); Emigration and immigration.; Employment; Immigrants; Occupations; Roaring Springs (Pa.)

Partial Transcript: It was then I lost my--in those days, cross pins were big time favorites.

Segment Synopsis: Mr. Grewal remembers meeting his now wife, Melissa after losing a cross pin and meeting her in the jewelry store she worked at when he went to get a replacement. He talks about gaining a position where she worked to get to know her better and talks about how their relationship progressed; they married in 1988. He talks about how they have children now and how Melissa and the children have made him a better person.

Keywords: Cross pins; Devon, Pennsylvania; Importance of family; Internal struggles; Isolation; Love; Marriage; Melissa Grewal; Parenthood; Sacrifices; Support

Subjects: Devon (Pa.); Employment; Families.; Immigrants; Marriage; Occupations

Partial Transcript: So before Melissa, pre-Melissa, how did you feel about the Philadelphia area?

Segment Synopsis: Grewal recalls that his parents moved to the Philadelphia area in 1979 when his mother fell sick with pancreatic cancer. He speaks about the initial feelings of isolation in the Downingtown area after his parents moved there while he was working in New Jersey. He saw the area as remote and remembers his particular surprise at not being able to find even a pizza parlor. He also speaks about how his feelings changed about the area after he met Melissa.

Keywords: Change in perspectives; Downingtown, Pennsylvania; Family ties; Love; Pancreatic cancer; Pennsylvania Route 113; Rural Pennsylvania; Uncertainty; Woodmont Apartments

Subjects: Downingtown (Pa.); Families.; Immigrants; Marriage; Philadelphia (Pa.)

Partial Transcript: So once you did decide to stay here, um, describe where you were, what were you doing?

Segment Synopsis: Grewal talks about his time after his father passed away, when he stopped pursuing his MBA and became a bank teller with Fidelity Bank in order to not burden his brother with his dependence. Melissa attended nursing school at West Chester University at the time. He perceives that he had trouble getting admitted into management programs at the bank because of his accent. He expands on all of the paths he took to get to the position he finds himself in today.

Keywords: Bank of America; Bank tellers; Banking; Continental Bank; Discrimination; Diversity; Fidelity Bank; Job hunting; King of Prussia, Pennsylvania; Lionville, Pennsylvania; Professional Bankers Development Program; Unemployment; Upward mobility; West Chester University

Subjects: Discrimination; Emigration and immigration.; Employment; Immigrants; King of Prussia (Pa.); Lionville (Pa.); Occupations; Race relations; Racism

Partial Transcript: Was--were people in the community accepting?

Segment Synopsis: Mr. Grewal talks about settling in Downingtown with Melissa in 1988 and his lack of struggle with discrimination in the town. He speaks about being the last one in his family to settle in the area and talks about his sister, who moved to Texas with her husband. He also reflects on how the dynamics have changed within the United States and how he feels immigrants no longer hold themselves to the high professional standard that he held himself to when immigrating.

Keywords: "Melting pot"; "The American Dream"; Americanization; Diversity; Downingtown, Pennsylvania; Green Card; Influx of immigrants; Integration; Professionalism

Subjects: Downingtown (Pa.); Emigration and immigration.; Families.; Immigrants; Philadelphia (Pa.)

Partial Transcript: So do you have any regrets or anything that you'd like to tell me that we haven't discussed yet?

Segment Synopsis: Grewal reflects on his life and whether he has any regrets. He reflects on his entitlements in India and in particular recalls a story where his family got tickets on a sold out plane because one of the people there knew Grewal. He talks about almost being treated like royalty in India and moving to America where no one knows who you are like they did in India. Despite the lack of social status in America, Grewal declares that his family means the most to him now and makes all of the sacrifices worth it.

Keywords: Blessings; Caste systems; Entitlement; Equality; Family; Privileges; Status

Subjects: Discrimination; Emigration and immigration.; Families.; Immigrants

Partial Transcript: Okay, do you have anything you want to talk about?

Segment Synopsis: Grewal reflects on what he considers most important in life. He comments on how well each of his three children are doing, yet he still continues to worry about them. He tells the interviewer, Kelsey, who is dating his son Major, that he considers her like a daughter. He talks about giving back and what means the most to him. He wants to give back to others because of how fortunate he feels he has been in his life.

Keywords: Care; Family; Giving back; Love; Parenthood; Worry

Subjects: Children; Families.; Immigrants