Interview with Malka Al Saadi, Mutaz Al Mudaris, March 16, 2019

Partial Transcript: Um, so, why don't you introduce yourselves?

Segment Synopsis: Malka Al Saadi and Mutaz Al Mudaris introduce themselves, their professions, country of origin, and when they arrived in Philadelphia. Al Mudaris comments on how he left Amman, Jordan, originally called Philadelphia by the Greeks, for Philadelphia in Pennsylvania. The interviewer mentions the date of the interview and the organization sponsoring the interview session.

Keywords: Amman, Jordan; Iraq; Malka Al Saadi; Mutaz Al Mudaris; Philadelphia (Pa.); Philadelphia Oral History Project; Professions; United Kingdom

Subjects: Amman (Jordan); Philadelphia (Pa.)

Partial Transcript: Um, tell me about your, your background; where you all come from.

Segment Synopsis: Al Saadi explains that she was born to a middle-class Iraqi family in 1941 and graduated from the Iraqi College of Medicine in 1964. Specializing in obstetrics and gynecology, she and the family then moved to the United Kingdom for her to study at the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists. After she received her degree in 1981, the family returned to Iraq, where she practiced medicine and lived through the war with Iran, the Gulf War, and the Iraq War. Despite the damaged infrastructure and an unstable economy and society, they stayed in Iraq so that she could help the people.

Keywords: Culture; Economy; Gulf War; Iran-Iraq War; Iraq; Iraq War (2003-2011); Iraqi College of Medicine; Kuwait; Middle-class; OB-GYN; Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists; Society; United Kingdom

Subjects: Education, Higher; Gynecology; Medical education; Medicine--Study and teaching; Medicine.; Obstetrics; Universities and colleges.; Women physicians.

Partial Transcript: We are, we are used--we were used to live in harmony.

Segment Synopsis: Al Saadi remembers the time when Christians, Jews, and Muslims lived in a familial harmony in Iraq and how, after 2003, these groups became estranged from each other. She says that newcomers to Baghdad during the Iraq War (also known as Second Gulf War) brought division and terror to Iraqi society and that she received threats on her life. She recounts having a heart attack after she found a dismembered and lacerated doll in her backyard, which she knew was a threat against her life, and how her colleagues advised her to seek medical care in Jordan.

Keywords: Christians; Iraq War (2003-2011); Jews; Medicine; Muslims; Wartime

Subjects: Freedom of religion; Iraq War, 2003-2011.; Medicine.; Politics and government; Religion; Women physicians.

Partial Transcript: So we left Iraq to Jordan, and there I had medical treatment, but I couldn't go back to Iraq.

Segment Synopsis: After receiving medical treatment in Jordan, Al Saadi returned to Iraq. After suffering another heart attack in May 2005, she and her family fled to Jordan. In 2007, Al Saadi took a job teaching in a medical school in Malaysia, and after a year and a half rejoined her children who insisted that she immigrate with them to the United States.

Keywords: Children; Iraq; Iraq War (2001-2011); Jobs; Jordan; Malaysia; Philadelphia, PA; United States; immigration; trauma

Subjects: Education, Higher; Iraq War, 2003-2011.; Medical education; Medicine--Study and teaching; Medicine.; Universities and colleges.; Women physicians.

Partial Transcript: So you actually brought your mother--

Segment Synopsis: Al Mudaris recalls his early childhood in the United Kingdom where his parents studied medicine, and how, in 1981, the family returned to Iraq, lived through the Iran-Iraq war, and then the Gulf War (what he calls the Kuwait War) and Iraq War. Despite the wars, the family stayed to do their duty as citizens and hoped for the best.

Keywords: Baghdad, Iraq; Child's perspective; Childhood; Medicine; United Kingdom

Subjects: Baghdad (Iraq); Childhood; Education, Higher; Iraq War, 2003-2011.; Medical education; Medicine--Study and teaching; Medicine.

Partial Transcript: But the years of the blockade were really hard on everyone...

Segment Synopsis: After graduating from college, Al Mudaris says he worked as an agricultural engineer for the Iraqi Federation of Engineers, and at night, in conjunction with his love for languages, as a translator for the Iraqi TV station Youth TV. He recalls in 1991 translating the romantic comedy "Pretty Woman," which was broadcast on Eid-e-Shuja', the Muslim Christmas. He then talks about how the film was censored so as not to offend cultural sensibilities.

Keywords: Agricultural engineering; Baghdad, Iraq; Censorship; Eid-e-Shuja'; Iraqi Federation of Industries; Iraqi sanctions; Linguistics; Pretty Woman (Motion picture); Translators; Youth TV (Iraq)

Subjects: Baghdad (Iraq); Occupations.; Politics and government; Professions.; Work.

Partial Transcript: And then in 2003, uh, you know, the lost war, the Liberation War of Iraq happened...

Segment Synopsis: Al Mudaris recounts how the family survived the American bombings during the 2003 Iraq War, what he calls the Liberation War, and how it seemed that, at any minute, he or his family members would die. He remembers the family gathering in one room, hearing the thunder of bombs and missiles, and realizing that life in Baghdad was insecure. He shares that even after the family fortified their house without electricity and running water, the heat from the explosions burnt the family's curtains.

Keywords: Culture; Family; Iraq War (2003-2011); Stress; Trauma; Wartime

Subjects: Families.; Iraq War, 2003-2011.; Politics and government

Partial Transcript: Then another phase came when the war ended.

Segment Synopsis: Al Mudaris recalls how looters destroyed and looted everything from money to toilets. Due to Iraq's long borders, "anti-American" domestic and foreign fighters also entered Iraq from neighboring nations, causing further turmoil and violence for the Iraqi citizens, including Al Mudaris' mother and father. He says that these groups targeted his parents because they were well-known doctors, alongside scientists, engineers, and high ranking military officials to empty the country of all educated people.

Keywords: "Brain drain"; Borders; Intellectuals; Iraq; Iraq War (2003-2011); Terrorism; United States

Subjects: Education, Higher; Iraq War, 2003-2011.; Politics and government

Partial Transcript: But, the second reason is, and this, this eventually took a toll on my mother's health is, after the war, the--Paul Bremer, the then like civil governor of Iraq...

Segment Synopsis: Al Mudaris explains how after losing his job translating movies, he chose to help rebuild Iraq by working as an interpreter for the U.S. and multinational forces with the Iraq Reconstruction Management Office (IRMO), which was helping to rebuild youth centers and orphanages. He then describes the precautions he took daily to protect himself from abduction or murder, the loss of many colleagues, and his growing fear of death.

Keywords: Corruption; Culture; Interpreting; Iraq Reconstruction Management Office (IRMO); Lewis Paul Bremer III; Ministry of Mass Communication; Reconstruction; Traitorism; Translation

Subjects: Iraq War, 2003-2011.; Occupations.; Politics and government; Professions.; Work.

Partial Transcript: And then when my mother's health situation was really bad, um, we opted to move to Jordan, but only temporarily.

Segment Synopsis: Al Mudaris talks about how due to his mother's poor health the family moved to Jordan for five years and then applied for refugee status and immigration to the U.S. He explains the obstacles they faced, including their designation as a "cold case" and an interviewer who assumed they were Ba'athist; the decision to move to Canada; and the ruling that enabled the family to move to the U.S. because Al Mudaris had worked for the U.S. Embassy in Iraq.

Keywords: Amman, Jordan; Ba'athism; Culture; Immigration journey; Interrogation; Interviews; Racism; Refugees; Stereotypes; United Nations

Subjects: Amman (Jordan); Emigration and immigration.; Immigrants; Iraq War, 2003-2011.

Partial Transcript: So we moved to the U.S. in 2009.

Segment Synopsis: Al Mudaris recalls how after arriving in the U.S. in 2009, he had to start from scratch. Despite working as a training and development manager for the largest hotel in Amman, Jordan, he had to walk door to door in Philadelphia to find employment. After two months he landed a job at the "Fresh Grocer" grocery store in the midst of regional transit strike. He talks about how difficult it was to adjust to life in the U.S., and how many from the Middle East, unable to adjust, returned home.

Keywords: Adjustment; Amman, Jordan; Employment; Fresh Grocer; Immigration; Jobs

Subjects: Amman (Jordan); Emigration and immigration.; Immigrants; Occupations.; Politics and government; Professions.; Work.

Partial Transcript: Yeah, so back to my first interview, this person calls me, she says 'Here, I landed you this job interview, um, at Fresh Grocer.'

Segment Synopsis: Al Mudaris shares how, because of a transit strike, he had to walk 90 minutes for his first interview at Fresh Grocer, where he was told he was overqualified. Taking the job, he walked three hours to get home. He explains how this job led to his next job, as an interpreter at the University of Pennsylvania, and how he was soon working three jobs, seven days a week. These experiences, he says, made him stronger and proud of what he was able to accomplish.

Keywords: Competition; Craigslist; Employment; Erie-Torresdale (Philadelphia neighborhood); Fresh Grocer; Interviews; Jobs; North Broad Street; Overqualification; Ritz Carlton Hotel; Stereotypes; Thomas Jefferson University Hospital of Philadelphia; Transportation; University of Pennsylvania; Volunteers

Subjects: Emigration and immigration.; Immigrants; Occupations.; Professions.; Work.

Partial Transcript: So, back up a little bit then.

Segment Synopsis: Al Mudaris explains how his sister Afaf, an electrical engineer, and her two children were the first to arrive in the U.S. He shares a bit about her educational and personal history, and his concern for his niece and nephew, who had witnessed such horrors in Iraq. He also talks about the growing anti-Iraqi sentiment in Jordan.

Keywords: Afaf; Child's perspective; Customs; Discrimination; Divorce; Electrical engineering; Family; Immigration; Jordan; Liverpool University; Malaysia; Refugees; Saddam Hussein; United Kingdom; United Nations Refugee Status; United States

Subjects: Education, Higher; Emigration and immigration.; Families.; Immigrants; Occupations.; Politics and government; Professions.; Work.

Partial Transcript: I've got a question. Why the states?

Segment Synopsis: Al Saadi talks about why she moved to the United States and why she is so happy that she did so, even though it was not their first choice. Al Saadi would have preferred at the time to move to Australia, where another son lives. She and Al Mudaris explain why they moved to Philadelphia, rather than settle in New York City, which they found too fast paced, expensive, and crowded. They explain how they feel more at home in Philadelphia because life here is closer to what they loved about life in Baghdad. They also share that many Arabs come to the United States with unrealistically high expectations.

Keywords: Australia; Chaplain Brown; Culture; David Menchi; England; International Organization of Migration (IMO); Israel; Jordan; Malaysia; Multiculturalism; Muslim; New York city; Philadelphia; Remigration; United States; culture; sponsors

Subjects: Education, Higher; Emigration and immigration.; Families.; Immigrants; Occupations.; Politics and government; Professions.; Work.

Partial Transcript: So, your sister, w--how did--why did she come to Philadelphia, then?

Segment Synopsis: Al Mudaris and Al Saadi explain how Afaf came to Philadelphia through her sponsor, Chaplain Brown, and how despite her experience and degree in electrical engineering, she struggled for more than a year to find a job in her field. Finally, the Jewish Employment and Vocational Service (JEVS) helped her find a job as medical list inspector. She now works as a quality assurance agent for the same company.

Keywords: Chaplain Brown; Employment; Immigration; Jewish Employment and Vocational Service (JEVS)

Subjects: Emigration and immigration.; Families.; Immigrants; Occupations.; Philadelphia (Pa.); Professions.; Work.

Partial Transcript: When you all are then in Jordan and you're about to move to the States, what kind of financial resources did you have?

Segment Synopsis: Al Saadi talks about the financial resources they had when they moved to the U.S. and the help that they received from family in the U.K. and Australia. She then talks about her decision, in her late sixties, not to practice medicine in the United States and how she, with the encouragement of her family, started to write books.

Keywords: Arrival; Family; Finances; Financial support; Iraqi College of Medicine; Jordan; Medical certifications; Ohio; Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists; United States

Subjects: Emigration and immigration.; Families.; Immigrants; Medicine.; Occupations.; Philadelphia (Pa.); Professions.; Women physicians.; Work.

Partial Transcript: So, um, I want to go back and, and, uh, ask you all about Iraq...

Segment Synopsis: Al Saadi and Al Mudaris share their first impressions of Philadelphia. They talk about their love of the scenery and landscape, and how upset they were with the poor conditions in their first residence in a northeast Philadelphia neighborhood. Al Mudaris shares how much he loved Philadelphia’s architecture, the diversity of its people, and the rights enjoyed by refugees as well as Americans. He then contrasts the experiences of being a refugee in Jordan and the United States.

Keywords: Americanization; Arrival; Castor Avenue; Diversity; Expectations; Multiculturalism; Northeast Philadelphia; Rights

Subjects: Emigration and immigration.; Families.; Immigrants; Philadelphia (Pa.)

Partial Transcript: Have you moved since you--

Segment Synopsis: Al Saadi and Al Mudaris talk about their move to Northeast Philadelphia, which they enjoy because it is family oriented, safe, and has great diversity. Al Mudaris then talks about tensions over privacy, security and personal spaces with their Iraqi neighbors in their first residence in the city. Now in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood, they are very comfortable.

Keywords: Baghdad, Iraq; Center City; Culture; Iraqi Immigration; Moving; Multiculturalism; Northeast Philadelphia; Resettlement Agency; Security

Subjects: Baghdad (Iraq); Emigration and immigration.; Families.; Immigrants; Philadelphia (Pa.)

Partial Transcript: So, this is the question then. Um, you said a number of Iraqis, in fact, came to Philadelphia and that was sort of, um--

Segment Synopsis: Al Saadi talks about the different types of Iraqis in Philadelphia, and how the other family in their first residence in Philadelphia thought badly about Afaf because she was a single mother. In contrast, she recalls another family helped her daughter find a job and improve her living conditions.

Keywords: Community; Culture; Iraqi community; Iraqi immigration; Multiculturalism; Northeast Philadelphia; Settlement

Subjects: Emigration and immigration.; Families.; Immigrants; Philadelphia (Pa.)

Partial Transcript: From the little I know about Iraq, which is, you know, just as an informed American...

Segment Synopsis: Al Mudaris remembers being asked by a fellow student in high school if he was Sunni or Shi'a and being confused by the question because he did not know what these words meant. He shares how when he asked at home if the family was Sunni or Shi'a his father replied, "You never ask that question because we are all human beings, and we have to respect each other's beliefs.” He talks about growing up in Iraq at a time when Muslims, Jews, and Christians lived in harmony, and how the ethnic and religious division that exploded during the Iraq War are reflected in divisions among Middle Eastern immigrants to the United States.

Keywords: Ethnic divisions; Gulf War; Iraq War (2003-2011); Religious divisions; Shi'a Islam; Socio-cultural immigration; Sunni Islam

Subjects: Emigration and immigration.; Families.; Freedom of religion; Immigrants; Iraq War, 2003-2011.; Politics and government; Religion

Partial Transcript: So, um, working as an interpreter, um, you--what, what type of people do you interpret for in the city?

Segment Synopsis: Al Mudaris talks about his work as an interpreter in Philadelphia. He explains why he has diversified his skills from medical interpreter, to a broad range of community, legal, escort, conference, and other interpreting, English and Arabic language instruction, and interpreter training. He never wants to face the kind of struggles finding a job as he first did in Philadelphia, and now has a diversity of skills.

Keywords: Certification Commission for Healthcare Interpreters (CCHI); Interpretation; Iraq; Jobs; Translation; Translators

Subjects: Emigration and immigration.; Immigrants; Occupations.; Philadelphia (Pa.); Professions.; Work.

Partial Transcript: In the years since you all arrived in 2009, yes, to Philadelphia?

Segment Synopsis: Al Saadi shares that because of where she lives she does not interact with many Iraqis in Philadelphia. Al Mudaris says he has seen a decrease in Middle Eastern refugees in the past few years. Despite this, Philadelphia’s Muslim communities remain sizable and have good support systems.

Keywords: Arabic immigration; Christian churches; Immigration; Mosques; President Donald Trump; Support organizations

Subjects: Emigration and immigration.; Families.; Immigrants; Philadelphia (Pa.); Religion