Interview with Wilbur Hackett, Jr., May 31, 2019

Partial Transcript: Hello. Today is, um, May thirty-first.

Segment Synopsis: Hackett spent the first few years of his life in Winchester, Kentucky, before moving to Louisville. His father worked for a tire company while his mother was a housewife. He had four siblings.

Keywords: Family; General Electric; Housewife; Housewives; Kentucky; Louisville (Ky.); Parents; Siblings; Tire companies; Tire company; Upbringing; Winchester (Ky.)

Subjects: African American families; African American neighborhoods; African Americans--Kentucky--Louisville; African Americans--Southern States.; Childhood; Family--History; Winchester (Ky.)

Partial Transcript: So, you grew up for a time in Winchester?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett spent the first six years of his life in Winchester, Kentucky before moving to Louisville. Much of his educational career was spent in segregated facilities.

Keywords: Elementary schools; High schools; Junior high schools; Louisville (Ky.); Middle schools; Oliver Street High School; Oliver Street School; Schools; Segregated schools; Segregation; University of Kentucky; Winchester (Ky.); duPont Manual High School

Subjects: African American college students.; African Americans--Civil rights--Kentucky; African Americans--Civil rights--Southern States; African Americans--Education.; African Americans--Race identity.; African Americans--Segregation; African Americans--Social conditions--1964-1975.; Childhood; Discrimination in education.; Education; Race relations--Kentucky; School integration--Kentucky; Segregation in education--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Okay, talk about who you were as a young man. How would you have described yourself?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett says that he grew up without much money, but he had a fun childhood that was filled with activities and things to do.

Keywords: Adventurous; Appreciations; Baseball; Cotter Homes; Entertainment; Fishing; Hiking; Housing projects; Outdoors; Outdoorsy; Poverty; Socioeconomic status; Sports; Walking

Subjects: African American families; African American neighborhoods; African Americans--Housing.; African Americans--Social conditions.; African Americans--Southern States.; Childhood; Neighborhoods.

Partial Transcript: Uh, describe yourself. What'd you look like?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett grew up in a very athletic family, which influenced his involvement in his community. His family life centered around athletics.

Keywords: Athletes; Athletic families; Baseball coaches; Black boarding schools; Black high schools; Bowlegged; Cheerleaders; Childhood; Churches; Communities; Family activities; Harmon Field; Lincoln Institute; Louisville (Ky.); Redheads; Richmond (Ky.); Shelbyville (Ky.); Winchester (Ky.)

Subjects: African American churches--Kentucky; African American families; African Americans--Recreation; African Americans--Social conditions.; African Americans--Social life and customs.; African Americans--Southern States.; Childhood; Louisville (Ky.); Shelbyville (Ky.); Winchester (Ky.)

Partial Transcript: What kind of student were you?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett describes himself as a strong student, and he participated in a lot of school activities including music and student council. His father started the Parent Teacher Association at his junior high school, which was an example of involvement that he followed.

Keywords: Academic engagement; Academic strengths; African American Students; Bands; Choirs; Class presidents; DuPont Junior High School; DuPont Manual High School; Parent Teacher Association (PTA); Students

Subjects: African Americans--Education.; Childhood; Education; Education--Study and teaching; Integration

Partial Transcript: Why so? Was education pushed in your home, or?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett's family was serious about education, which was reflected in his academic performance and his perfect attendance record. His uncle was one of the first African American graduates of the University of Louisville Law School.

Keywords: Academics; Churches; First African American graduates; Parental support; Perfect attendance records; Religious families; University of Louisville Law School

Subjects: African American churches--Kentucky; African American families; African American law students; African American leadership; African Americans--Education.; African Americans--Social life and customs.; Education

Partial Transcript: Talk about football. Where did that--uh, where'd you pick that up at?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett's family was made up of athletes. He began to play organized football when he was eight years old, and he continued to play through college at the University of Kentucky where he received a scholarship.

Keywords: Athletes; Athletic qualities; Athletics; Development; Families; Fathers; Football; Football players; Older players; Organized sports; Progression; Scholarships; University of Kentucky

Subjects: African Americans--Sports; Football players.; Football.

Partial Transcript: So, before we get to your UK experience, how did you understand race in the world?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett noticed the disparities between the social conditions of white people and black people, but it did not make him upset because his life was good. He understood that something was wrong, but he enjoyed the way he was brought up.

Keywords: Adventures; All-black neighborhoods; Bathrooms; Boundaries; Buses; Enjoyment; Good things; Movie theaters; Resources; Stores; Trains; Understanding; Upbringing; Water fountains; Winchester (Ky.)

Subjects: African American neighborhoods; African Americans--Conduct of life.; African Americans--Race identity.; African Americans--Segregation; African Americans--Social conditions.; African Americans--Social life and customs.; Race discrimination.; Race relations--Kentucky; Segregation in transportation; Segregation.; United States--Race relations.

Partial Transcript: Okay, so high school, uh, your first time in an integrated setting--school setting.

Segment Synopsis: Hackett and his family participated in civil rights demonstrations. He was discriminated against by his white schoolmates. He was not allowed to talk to white women without backlash from his teammates. He says he had more opportunities than other black students due to his athleticism.

Keywords: All-American football players; Assaults; Athletes; Demonstrations; DuPont Manual High School; High schools; Integrations; Louisville (Ky.); Marches; Martin Luther King Jr.; Movements; Opportunities; Police; Privileges; Rock throwing; Rocks; School mates; Social issues; White students

Subjects: African Americans--Civil rights--Kentucky; African Americans--Civil rights--Southern States; African Americans--Education.; African Americans--Politics and government.; African Americans--Race identity.; African Americans--Segregation; African Americans--Social conditions.; Civil rights demonstrations; Civil rights movements--United States; Discrimination.; Education; Integration; Race relations--Kentucky; Racism; Segregation in education--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Wow. So talk about your, uh, senior year and your preparing for college. Um, did you always know you were going to college?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett began receiving college recruitment letters after his junior year of high school. His top choice was Michigan State, but his father wanted him to go to the University of Kentucky so he could prove to his boss that he would one day attend the football games.

Keywords: Attention; Colleges; Indiana University; Integration; Letters; Michigan State University; Murray University; Oklahoma University; Perdue University; Pound Tire Company; Recruitment; Sherman Lewis; Southeastern Conference (SEC); Taylor Pound; University of Kentucky; University of Notre Dame

Subjects: African American college students.; African Americans--Education (Higher); Education; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Football players.; Football.; Integration; University of Kentucky--Football

Partial Transcript: Um, so what year did you graduate high school?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett describes his first visit to the University of Kentucky as eerie because he was only shown the appealing sights of campus, but he didn't see many other black students. He and Houston Hogg, the other black football recruit of his class, never crossed paths during the recruitment process. The University of Kentucky was still a segregated place regardless of whether it had begun integrating.

Keywords: Appealing; Black college students; Campus; Challenges; Dixie Highway; Fears; Houston Hogg; Injustices; Louisville (Ky.); Louisville riots; Lynchings; Orchestrated; Recruits; Riots; Secretiveness; Segregation; Social awareness; Strangeness; University of Kentucky; Wildcat Lodge

Subjects: African American college students--Social conditions; African American college students.; African Americans--Civil rights--Kentucky; African Americans--Education (Higher); African Americans--Race identity.; African Americans--Social conditions.; Discrimination in education.; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Integration; Racism--Kentucky--Lexington; School integration--Kentucky; Segregation in education.; University of Kentucky--Football

Partial Transcript: There were death threats on us when--but it didn't, it didn't bother me.

Segment Synopsis: Hackett was reluctant to travel south for football because he and his other black teammate, Houston Hogg, received death threats for being black. They were protected by state police during their game at Ole Miss. The black community at the University of Kentucky gave Hackett a place to find encouragement and reassurance within all of the discrimination and racism that surrounded him.

Keywords: Assurance; Birmingham (Ala.); Black Student Union; Black community; Brutality; Community; Concerns; Death threats; Encouragement; Hostility; Houston Hogg; Ole Miss; Police escorts; Protection; Reluctance; Social injustices; Southern states; State troopers; Support; Traveling; University of Mississippi

Subjects: African American college students--Social conditions; African Americans--Crimes against.; African Americans--Education (Higher); African Americans--Race identity.; African Americans--Social conditions--1964-1975.; African Americans--Southern States.; College integration; Discrimination in education.; Discrimination.; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Race discrimination.; Race relations--Kentucky; Racism

Partial Transcript: Was, uh, racism a daily thing, or was it, um, isolated incidents?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett didn't find that racism was an everyday struggle, though black students at the University of Kentucky faced racial incidents often. The community they built together allowed them to escape from the discrimination they faced in their lives as UK students.

Keywords: Black Voices of UK; Eastern Kentucky University; Escape; Football players; Kentucky State University; Racial incidents; Racism; Segregation; Survival; University of Kentucky

Subjects: African American college students.; African Americans--Race identity.; African Americans--Segregation; African Americans--Social conditions--1964-1975.; African Americans--Southern States.; Race discrimination.; Racism--Kentucky--Lexington; Segregation in education.

Partial Transcript: How many people, um--how many other black football players were there when you arrived?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett was one of five African American football players on the University of Kentucky's team and one of three black freshmen at the time.

Keywords: Albert Johnson; Black football players; Football players; Greg Page; Integration; Nate Northington

Subjects: African American college students.; African Americans--Race identity.; African Americans--Southern States.; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Football players.

Partial Transcript: Talk me--talk to me about it, though.

Segment Synopsis: Hackett's friend and teammate, Greg Page, was one of his greatest influences on his decision to come to the University of Kentucky. Page was injured during a practice and died soon after. The intentions of the other players and the University came into question for many people because of the treatment of black football players.

Keywords: Accidents; Black football players; Bonding; Cecil Newton; Deaths; Exposure; Fears; Friendships; Greg Page; Hardships; Influential people; Injuries; Integration; Intentions; Michigan State University; Survival; University of Kentucky

Subjects: African American college students.; African Americans--Education.; Football.

Partial Transcript: Did you consider leaving ever?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett considered leaving the University of Kentucky on more than one occasion because of the racism and discrimination he and other black students endured, but he always found support enough to stay.

Keywords: Coaches; Good things; Respect; Support; Team captains; Teammates; University of Kentucky

Subjects: African American college students.; African Americans--Race identity.; African Americans--Social conditions--1964-1975.; African Americans--Southern States.; Discrimination.; Football.; Racism; University of Kentucky--Football

Partial Transcript: What position did you play?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett was a linebacker during his football career, but he says he doesn't compare to the men's size today.

Keywords: Athletics; Football officials; Large men; Linebackers; Numbers; Replay

Subjects: African Americans--Sports; Football.; University of Kentucky--Football

Partial Transcript: Talk about dorm life. You lived in Wildcat Lodge.

Segment Synopsis: Hackett says he had a relatively pleasant dorm life with his fellow rowdy athletes. He married his wife during his junior year and moved to the married-student housing.

Keywords: Athletes; Cooperstown; Dormitories; Dorms; Environments; Houston Hogg; Junior year; Kirwan Blanding towers; Marriages; Married student housing; Roommates; Rowdiness; Suffering; University of Kentucky; White roommates; Wildcat Lodge

Subjects: African American college students.; African Americans--Education (Higher); African Americans--Housing.; African Americans--Marriage.; Football players.

Partial Transcript: Talk to me about, uh--what was a practice day like? What would, what would your day as a student look like, as a student athlete?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett says that football practices were particularly brutal for the black athletes, including inhumane treatment and frustration. This was tolerated because it was simply the way it was.

Keywords: Abuses; Acceptability; African American college students.; African Americans--Education (Higher); Balance; Black Student Union; Boycotts; Brutality; Charlie Bradshaw; Commitments; Counseling; Deaths; Dedications; Football; Football players; Frustrations; Funerals; Greg Page; Inhumane treatment; Injuries; Injustices; Missouri; Protests; Racism; Segregation

Subjects: African American college students.; African Americans--Education (Higher); Football players.

Partial Transcript: Do you feel like your life was better as a athlete, as a black athlete, and as an elite, black athlete at UK, um, than the average black student during that period?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett says he was treated better than the average black student because of his status as an elite athlete, but he still prioritized socializing within the African American community.

Keywords: Athletes; Black athletes; Black students; Choirs; Clarence Thomas; Communities; People of color; Police; Privileges; Quality of life; Support; Treatment; Unity

Subjects: African American college students.; African Americans--Kentucky--Lexington--Social conditions; African Americans--Social conditions--1964-1975.; African Americans--Sports; Race relations--Kentucky--Lexington

Partial Transcript: So, um, talk about life on the campus itself. Um, let's go back to the classroom, actually.

Segment Synopsis: Hackett found that professors were more progressive than students. There were very few black students on campus, so he was usually the only one in most of his classes.

Keywords: Academics; Black students; Campus life; Classrooms; Education; Integration; Professors; Progressiveness; Staff; Under-representation

Subjects: African American college students.; African Americans--Social conditions--1964-1975.; African Americans--Southern States.; Education, Higher--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Did you feel like you were welcome everywhere on campus? In the, uh, cafeteria, in the--on the grounds, or?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett found that he was accepted into the University of Kentucky's community relatively well because everyone accepted that integration was something that needed to happen. The hippie movement gave the black community a sense of acceptance as well, because movements for change were not exclusively their own.

Keywords: Acceptance; Campus; Hippies; Integration; University of Kentucky

Subjects: Education, Higher--Kentucky; Integration; University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: So, um, any protests take place on campus while you were here that you recall?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett was on campus for the burning of the University of Kentucky's ROTC building. He was a bystander to many other social movements along with the push for integration.

Keywords: Anti-war protests; Burning buildings; Demonstrations; Movements; Resentments; Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC); Vietnam War

Subjects: African American college students.; African Americans--Education.; Anti-war demonstrations; Civil rights demonstrations; Student protesters; United States. Army. Reserve Officers' Training Corps; Vietnam War, 1961-1975; Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Protest movements

Partial Transcript: Did you have any African American professors at all, or?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett did not have any black professors, but he saw change when Jerry Stephens was hired.

Keywords: African American professors; Black professors; Changes; Jerry Stephens; Progressiveness

Subjects: African American college students.; African American leadership; African Americans--Education (Higher); African Americans--Employment.

Partial Transcript: Do you--do you remember any, um--or was there any overt racism?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett says he and other black students had to deal with racism often on campus, often fighting to defend themselves. They dealt with dogs, racial slurs, and other discrimination.

Keywords: Black co-eds; Campuses; Confrontations; Dogs; Fights; Fraternity rows; George Wallace; Incidents; Racial slurs; Racism; White students

Subjects: African American college students.; African Americans--Education (Higher); African Americans--Race identity.; Discrimination.; Racism

Partial Transcript: Did you--did you have interracial friendships?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett had friends from high school who were open to interracial friendships. His black teammate married a white woman, though it was discouraged by the coaching staff.

Keywords: Changes; Cooperstown; Discouragement; Integration; Interracial friendships; Racism; Segregation

Subjects: African American college students.; African Americans--Marriage.; African Americans--Social conditions.; Interracial marriage; Racism

Partial Transcript: Um, what kind of songs did you sing in Black Voices? Do you remember any of the songs?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett discusses the singing group, the Black Voices of UK.

Keywords: Black community; Music; Pianists; Singing; Songs; Support; Survival; Violinists

Subjects: African American college students.; African Americans--Recreation; Singing.

Partial Transcript: What do you do now?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett now works at Toyota and is a replay official for the SEC. He has seven grandchildren, as well.

Keywords: College football; Grandchildren; Paint shops; Replay officials; Southeastern Conference (SEC); Toyota; Trainers

Subjects: African American families; African Americans--Employment.; African Americans--Sports

Partial Transcript: Um, so what year did you leave, uh, UK?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett did not complete his degree. He continued his schooling for a semester after his wife graduated from the University of Kentucky, but then he did not return. His goal is to finish the last few hours of his degree.

Keywords: Degrees; Dropping out; Educations; Graduation

Subjects: African American college students.; African Americans--Education.

Partial Transcript: Um, so I think you've got a few things there for me to see today. What do you got?

Segment Synopsis: Hackett shows the interviewer various articles and pictures from his football career.

Keywords: Academic advisers; Articles; Athletic committees; Black identity; Board of trustees; Captains; Louisville (Ky.); Photos; Reminders; Respect; Sports writers

Subjects: African American college students.; African Americans--Race identity.; African Americans--Social conditions--1964-1975.; African Americans--Southern States.; College integration