00:00:00HARVEY: Hello, my name is Alex Harvey. As a student in Doctor Fernheimer's
Bourbon Oral History course in Spring 2021, I am conducting this interview as
part of my work for that class and the Women in Bourbon Oral History Project.
Today is April 26, 2021. And it is my great honor and pleasure to interview
Maggie Kimberl using TheirStory here in Lexington, Kentucky. Thank you so much
for joining me today.
KIMBERL: Thank you for having me.
HARVEY: We're a year into the COVID-19 pandemic. How are you doing?
KIMBERL: Uh, you know, as well as can be expected. I know that a lot of folks
around me have been having a very difficult time, especially our friends in the
restaurant and hospitality industry. Uh, but all things considered, things have
been going pretty well for me.
HARVEY: Great. Um, for the official record, can you please state and spell
your name?
KIMBERL: Yeah, my name is, uh, Maggie Kimberl--it's actually Margaret, but I
go by Maggie, M-a-g-g-i-e K-i-m-b-e-r-l, it's Kimberly without the Y.
00:01:00
HARVEY: And, when and where were you born?
KIMBERL: I was born in Louisville, Kentucky.
HARVEY: Um, we're going to talk a little bit about your family background, um--
KIMBERL: Okay.
HARVEY: What are your parents' names and occupations?
KIMBERL: Uh, my mother is Elizabeth Surgener and she is a licensed counselor.
And my father is Chuck Kimberl, and he has owned--he's retired now, but
throughout my life he owned multiple construction companies, uh, and was a
contractor and engineer.
HARVEY: Uh, when and where were they born, and where do they reside now?
KIMBERL: Uh, my mom was born, uh, I believe, in Paducah. Uh, she may--either
Louisville or Paducah, I can't remember. Uh, my dad was born in Jacksonville,
Florida. And my mom lives in Florida now. My dad lives in Kentucky.
HARVEY: Okay. Um, how many siblings do you have, and what are their
00:02:00names and ages relative to you?
KIMBERL: I have two sisters and a stepsister. Uh, my stepsister is older than
me. She--her name is Kristy Nichols. Uh, she just turned fifty. And then I have
two younger sisters. Jennifer Potts is my closest sister in age. We were born
thirteen months apart, and then, uh, Barbara Kimberl is my youngest sister.
HARVEY: What is your earliest memory or experience with bourbon?
KIMBERL: Oh, that's a good one. See, I've been trying to figure that out for a
while. Uh, the, the first time that I remember actually liking bourbon, um--you
know, bourbon has kind of--when you grow up in Kentucky, bourbon is kind of like
in the wallpaper, you know, it's like just all around you, and so like I never
really noticed it much. But the, the first time that I remember actually trying
bourbon and liking it, um, a friend of mine had brought a pint of
00:03:00Eagle Rare to another friend's wedding. And before we went into the wedding, we
were all standing around in the parking lot passing around a pint of Eagle Rare,
taking sips off of it. And I was like, "Hey this stuff is actually pretty good."
HARVEY: That's really interesting.
KIMBERL: Yeah.
HARVEY: Um, now that we've talked a bit about the--your family background,
let's, uh, shift gears and focus on your childhood.
KIMBERL: Okay--
HARVEY: --um, can you tell me about your experiences growing up in Louisville?
KIMBERL: So I grew up in a suburb of Louisville called Prospect, and, uh, I
grew up down on the river. It was, it was a very, uh, river-centric culture. We,
you know, all of our neighbors in our neighborhood had boats. My dad had a
sailboat, and so we would go out sailing all the time on the river. Um, you
know, all the neighbors had speedboats, so they would do water-skiing while we
were out there sailing. And, you know, we were big into fishing and all kinds of
stuff like that. Um, you know, I like to tell people I grew up in the
00:04:00Bougie holler--(laughs)--which are two things that probably shouldn't go
together but do. Um, and then my parents divorced when I was in elementary
school. And I went to live with my dad out in Skylight, Kentucky, which was, uh,
really one of the main centers of thoroughbreds. So I grew up in the midst of,
um, many, many massive, beautiful thoroughbred farms. Hermitage Farm is out
there, uh, Longfield Farm was out there. There were just so many beautiful
thoroughbred farms out there. So one of my--probably, my, my, my second official
job was I worked at the Skylight Country Store for about four and a half years
when I was in high school and, and, early college. And that was right across the
street from Longfield Farm where they, they bred thoroughbred horses for the Derby.
HARVEY: That's awesome.
KIMBERL: Yeah.
HARVEY: Um, growing up where, uh, where did you go to school and
00:05:00when did you go from elementary to high school?
KIMBERL: Yeah, so I grew up in Oldham County which is one of the suburbs of
Louisville. And I went to Goshen Elementary and South Oldham Middle and South
Oldham High School. And I graduated from South Oldham High School in 1999 and
then started at the University of Louisville right after that.
HARVEY: Awesome. Um, what did you want to be when you, uh, when you grew up
when you were little?
KIMBERL: So when I was really little, I wanted to be a doctor. And I think
that was my dad's influence because he always told me, "You're going to be a
doctor. You're going to be a doctor. You're going to be a doctor." And I was
like, "Okay, that sounds good." Um, and so for, a real--I mean probably well
into middle school I was like, "Yeah, I'm going to be a pediatrician when I grow
up." And, uh, I'm not sure when that stopped being appealing to me. It was
probably when I figured out how much college costs--(laughs)--and I was like,
"Yeah, I, I don't think I can afford to be a pediatrician," um, or,
00:06:00or any other kind of--anything that requires, you know, continuing education
past a normal college degree. So, uh, you know, I started thinking about, uh,
other career paths. And when I graduated from high school, the intention was to
be a high school teacher. And so when I started at University of Louisville, I
started, um, you know, with educational courses. And, uh, you know, I did some
substitute teaching after high school and pretty quickly realized that that was
not, uh, a good fit for me and, you know, just kind of moved on from there.
HARVEY: Awesome. Um, so at the University of Louisville, uh, you majored in
English and philosophy, correct?
KIMBERL: Correct, yes, yes I did.
HARVEY: Can you explain how you moved to English and philosophy from that
secondary, uh, education?
KIMBERL: Yeah. Well, so throughout college, I was, I was taking courses that
would set me up to have a good foundation for, uh, you know, high school, being
a high school teacher. Um, you know, it included a lot of language
00:07:00courses, a lot of, uh, you know, history courses, linguistics courses, things
like that. And the original intention was to major, uh, in English and minor in
a foreign language. I had chosen German, and, uh, you know, and I'd been looking
at Russian and a whole bunch of other things as well. And, you know, the, the
idea was, maybe I can--that would make me more marketable, uh, you know, to have
two subject areas that I could teach. And, uh, you know, I quickly got into
linguistics, and really the emphasis in my college education was linguistic
anthropology. And that's kind of where I ended up taking a whole bunch of
different European language--or, you know, learning about a whole bunch of
different European languages. So I took German, uh, twelve credit, credit hours
of German, um, and I did coursework in Italy one summer. I did, uh,
00:08:00you know, summer, a summer abroad studying in Italy. And I had taken Spanish in
high school and Latin in middle school and French in middle school. And so, you
know, I had, you know, pretty much the, the full range of, um, a lot of European
languages, which really helped me to understand linguistics and the history of
language and, you know, like the, the mother tongue theory of linguistics. And
so that was something that was always very interesting to me. And that kind of
evolved into, you know, I, I think I am a writer and I think I need to just be a writer.
HARVEY: That's awesome. Um, do you see your study of different languages come
out in your work when you're writing about bourbon?
KIMBERL: Absolutely. And, you know, it's really interesting because, uh, my,
my two main publications that I write for, American Whiskey Magazine and Whisky
Magazine are based in the United Kingdom and, you know, we have a lot of
conversations. I had a wonderful conversation stuck in traffic with
00:09:00my, my publisher. We were headed to the Kentucky, uh, Bourbon Festival and got
stuck in traffic for two hours. And we just had this amazing conversation about
linguistic anthropology and the fact that, the, the English that people speak in
the United States is closer to the English of the settlers who came over than
the people who are in England speaking English because their English more
rapidly evolves. And one of, the, the reasons behind that is because when a
group of people leave their, their native home, they tend to hold more closely
to their traditions for a lot longer and for many more generations. While, you
know, the folks at home are still going about business as usual and things are
changing and evolving at, you know, a natural pace. So, you know, it, it's
always really interesting to get into those conversations with my
00:10:00British counterparts because they have a lot to say about it as well.
HARVEY: That is, uh, very interesting. Um, when you were in college, were
there any extracurriculars that you were a part of that went hand in hand with
your writing?
KIMBERL: Well, so I didn't get to do a whole lot of extracurriculars when I
was in college. Um, I was on scholarship and I was working full-time, and so
working full-time and going to school full-time there's not a whole lot of
opportunity for, for much else. Um, so--but I was very active in the honors
program, and I was the University--I graduated as a University Honors Scholar,
which meant that, you know, you had to be involved for a certain period of time
and with a certain GPA and all that sort of thing with the, the University
Honors, uh, Program. And so that was really the closest thing that I had to an
extracurricular activity was hanging out in the Honors House with, you know, the
other Honors students. And we did, you know, we did, um,
00:11:00conferences and things like that. Uh, you know, I did a lot of volunteering
through the Honors House. Uh, but really, as far as, you know, sports or clubs
or anything like that, um, you know, I just unfortunately didn't have a lot of
time for that.
HARVEY: That's very impressive, congratulations on--
KIMBERL: --thank you--
HARVEY: --the Honors. Um, so after you graduated, what was life like for you
moving into the real world from the college world?
KIMBERL: It was jarring. I mean so, you know, like, I grew up with my dad and
stepmom who, you know, did not have college degrees and, you know, worked in,
uh, you know, sales and entrepreneurial things. And so I didn't have, like, a
whole--I didn't have a very good idea of, you know, how to make that transition.
And, you know, I didn't feel like I, I had anybody in my life who I could talk
to about that. And so, you know, I, I tried my best, I was like well, you know,
I'll just send some resumes out and see what happens. And ended up,
00:12:00you know, in, in a couple of jobs that were not a great fit for me and, you
know, not really sure how to get on a career path and didn't have a framework
for that, and so it took me a while. You know, it took me a while to get into,
uh, you know, figuring out networking, and, and all those kinds of things that
are more apparent if you are more involved in college life. Unfortunately, I was
not able to be, uh, because I was working full-time unloading trucks in a
grocery warehouse to put myself through college. Um, so it took me a really long
time to kind of get the swing of things and get a--you know, figure out how to
start. You know, it was, it was a lot of false starts, if you will, you know, I
tried a bunch of different things, and they didn't work out. And ultimately, you
know, I, I figured it out later, but I was a stay-at-home mom for a while. And
then, you know, I really, um, started back into the workforce as a part-time
clerk in a liquor store, and that's really where the next part of the
00:13:00journey began for me.
HARVEY: Um, so, the--working as a clerk in the liquor store, um, how did that
affect your, your move into the bourbon industry and into the writing portion of it?
KIMBERL: That's a really great question. So, uh, you know, I worked part-time
in the evenings and--so I was still a stay-at-home mom during the day taking
care of the kids. But then when my husband came home from work, I would go into
the liquor store and, and, do my, do my time there. And that was really an
opportunity to learn about, you know, the wine and spirits market and about wine
and spirits in general. So, you know, like I had originally intended to learn
about wine because I thought that would be a marketable skill going forward.
And, you know, I kind of quickly figured out that wine people are maybe not my
people. And I was really interested in the farm-to-table movement at that time,
and so I was kind of looking at the whiskey section, you know, the
00:14:00bourbon section saying, you know, they make that stuff right down the street;
maybe I should learn about it. And, you know, that was back in the days--this
was eleven years ago now--uh, when I was doing that. And, um, that was back in
the days when the master distillers would come and sit in a store and sign
bottles and do tastings, and nobody really knew who they were. And, you know,
that's kind of crazy to think about now because they're, like, basically rock
stars. And, uh, you know, so I met a whole bunch of really awesome master
distillers at that point in my life, and, uh, you know, like Chris Morris would
be in there making mint juleps for Derby Week. And, you know, sometimes we would
have cigar rollers in the store for Derby Week and things like that. And it, you
know, it was just a lot of really interesting people that I was meeting. And so,
um, one year during Derby Week, uh, Jim Rutledge, who was with Four Roses at the
time, was in my store doing a tasting and, bottle, bottle signing.
00:15:00And I don't know if you know anything about Derby Week in Kentucky, but
everything is pandemonium, chaos, and pandemonium. And it's the exact same way
at the liquor store during Derby Week. And so I would be behind the cash
register and all the people would clear out, and I would try to walk around and
go talk to Jim Rutledge. And a whole hoard of people would come in and I would
have to go right back to the cash register. And it was like that for, you know,
three or four hours, however long he was there. And then he was packing up to
leave and I had to go on break, and I was like, Oh well, I guess I'll talk to
Jim Rutledge next year. Whomp, whomp--(laughs)--you know. So I went back in the
break room and started eating my sad little peanut butter sandwich. And the next
thing I knew, Jim Rutledge came through the door with bottles in one hand and
cups in the other hand. He--and he was like, "You didn't get to do my tasting."
And I was like, "Okay, this is awesome." So he sat down with me for probably
twenty minutes, and he taught me the proper bourbon tasting technique, a little
bit about the history of Four Roses, why they have ten different
00:16:00recipes, which recipes are in which bottle, you know, "You can taste this in
here, you can taste this in here." And I was like, "This is amazing, I have to
tell the whole world about this." And, uh, shortly after that, I had quit my job
and started writing about whiskey. And so, you know, I had been writing for a
mommy blog here in, in Louisville called Louisville Family Fun, and I'm still
writing for them. Uh, you know, it's been ten years, eleven. I mean it's been a
long time. Uh, but I had been writing for them for a little while and I was
trying to figure out, like, you know, I love writing for them, but I need to
write about something else that is interesting to me, and not just my kids, you
know, because that's a really fine balance you have to strike as a parent is,
you know, being interested in your kids and then also having your own interests.
And so, you know, I started looking around. I was, I was still really into the
farm-to-table movement, still am today. And, uh, you know, I, I was just like I
need to write about this bourbon stuff, I need to tell people about this.
Because this is really cool and it's happening right in my own back
00:17:00yard, and that's, like, kind of a big thing. And so I quit my job and started
writing about whiskey.
HARVEY: That's awesome.
KIMBERL: Yeah.
HARVEY: Um, so we're starting Derby Week this week. Do you have anything going
on, any big plans with, you know, writing or any experiences that you can talk
about? That--
KIMBERL: --you know, it's--okay, so this is, this is really funny, but I've
actually never been to the Derby and I've never been to The Oaks. Uh, I've been
to Churchill Downs. And the closest I've been is I go--I have gone the last few
years--well not last year, but, uh, the, the years before that, I've gone on
Derby Week on Wednesday, uh, to the Brown-Forman Finish Line Suites, which has
been, you know, really nice. It's a nice experience. Um, I'm taking my kids to
the track next month. I have the Kentucky Colonel's box. I'm also a Kentucky
Colonel. Uh, so I'm taking my kids to Millionaire's Row, which I think they're
really excited about. Uh, but I've never actually been to the Derby,
00:18:00so--and, you know, this year, it's, it's definitely different. Um, you know,
it--they're not going to have folks in the infield, you know. It's going to be a
scaled-back number of spectators, but I think people are still really excited
about it. Um, so, I'm looking forward to--I think at this point, since I've
never been I have decided that the first time I go I'm going to make sure that
my kids get to go too.
HARVEY: That's awesome. Um, even with the pandemic and your rise through the
bourbon world, how has it been balancing that, that family life, the
stay-at-home mom, with the growing professional and leadership roles that you're
beginning to take on?
KIMBERL: You know, it's, it--balance is really important, and, that is, that's
absolutely the key. Uh, you know, it's really just a matter of you have to get a
job that is flexible enough, uh, to allow you to do what you need to do at home.
And I've been very fortunate, um, you know, I, I worked in marketing
00:19:00also for the last, uh, seven years. I had a marketing job at a company called
NowSourcing that makes infographics. And, uh, you know, that, that was a really
flexible schedule. And if I needed to take off to go to a whiskey festival or if
I needed to leave early to pick up kids or, you know, if I needed to go to the
school play in the middle of the day or, you know, whatever it was, there was
that flexibility there. And that's something--you know, it's really important
for parents to be upfront about the fact that, you know, yes, I do have a life
outside of this job. And, and I mean that's important for everybody, it's not
just parents. But I feel like it's especially important for parents because, you
know, you want your kids to, to understand that you're still a part of their
life even if you're not there for every single thing. And, uh, you know, that's,
that's really important. So flexibility in your job is key. And, you know, being
able to say I'm going to push pause right now and I will unpause, you
00:20:00know, later on at home after, after dinner or after the kids go to bed or
whatever it is, you know. You have to have that flexibility to be able to get it
all done.
HARVEY: Um, how old are your, your children now?
KIMBERL: My kids, uh, are about to turn twelve and fourteen, they are
currently eleven and thirteen. I have two boys.
HARVEY: Okay, awesome. Um, so, after you left the liquor store to begin
writing, where did you start? What was your process to get into that, into the
writing world?
KIMBERL: So I stared at Louisville.com, which is the online component of
Louisville Magazine. And that was a really great segue because I had pretty much
ultimate freedom about what I wanted to write about. It didn't pay very well,
and the tradeoff was that, you know, "Because we're not paying so well, you can
pretty much write whatever you want." And that was absolutely phenomenal for me
to get my career off the ground because, you know, I had the opportunity--I had
a lot of opportunity there. And I'm--that's--I, I leveraged that
00:21:00opportunity to go out and meet people and cover festivals. You know, I
basically, anything anybody emailed me, you know, "Do you want to come to this?
Do you want to do this? Do you want to cover this?" I said yes. I said yes to
everything. And, you know, like I would do distillery tours and festivals and
events and all this other stuff. Uh, you know, the, the Derby Museum had--would
have these really great, um, programs with Fred Minnick, and, you know, the--I'm
sure they'll bring those back after the pandemic is over. But, you know, they
would have really amazing guests. Uh, Ed Foote was one of the ones that I met at
that, uh--at the Kentucky Derby Museum. Legend Series is what it's called. And
so, you know, like, I just got to meet a lot of people in the industry doing it
that way. And, uh, you know, it didn't pay very well but it helped me launch my
career. And from there, I went to the Whiskey Wash and then to the Alcohol
Professor and then Whisky Magazine and then, uh, you know, when, when
00:22:00the Parapgrah, uh, Paragraph Publishing, which is the parent company of Whisky
Magazine, launched American Whiskey Magazine, um, over three years ago now, I
was pretty much in that on the ground floor.
HARVEY: That's really interesting that you were there and you got to help
start up this American version of it, um--
KIMBERL: Yeah.
HARVEY: Do you remember what your first essay that you had published was, your
first article?
KIMBERL: So, um, the first article that I ever wrote for Louisville.com was,
uh, "Louisville's Top Ten Bourbon Bars." Because, you know, when, when you're
writing for websites like that, it's all about clicks and engagement and that's
the kind of thing that gets a lot of engagement. Uh, the first thing that I ever
had published was in a now-defunct magazine in the United Kingdom called The
Carouser. And it was, uh, it was uh, "Why Louisville is, uh, the Best Bourbon
City" or something like that, I can't remember exactly what the title was.
It's been so long ago now. Um, and then for Whisky Magazine, when I
00:23:00started for Whisky Magazine, I did a story about the Pappy Van Winkle
barrel-fermented cigars, uh, that are made by Drew Estate. And I actually got to
travel to Nicaragua with Jonathan Drew, uh, and tour the factories and, you
know, see the cigars being made and all that kind of stuff for that story, which
was really cool.
HARVEY: What was the, the feeling when you first saw your, your name
published? In, um--
KIMBERL: --it was, it was pretty cool. You know, I always want to take it to
my kids first and be like, "Who's that? Can you read that?" (laughs) And, uh,
you know, they get a kick out of that kind of thing. So now whenever my son sees
me, you know, like sometimes we'll be in the car and I'll come on the
radio--(laughs)--and they'll be like, "That's you, mom, that's so cool." Um, and
so, you know, now my, my, sons are basically my best PR, you know. They'll,
they'll tell anybody and everybody who listens, "My mom is Madam
00:24:00Colonel President Maggie." (both laugh)
HARVEY: Um, so you worked for multiple different, you know, magazines and
different sources--uh, outlets. Um, can you explain just, like, what bouncing
around, working with each of them was like?
KIMBERL: Yeah, I mean, you know, it's a lot of, uh, time management and
process management. I'm a big fan of spreadsheets, and so, like, I use Google
Calendar and spreadsheets and all that kind of stuff to keep everything straight
because I do have to be in a lot of different places at the same time. Um, so,
it, it gets a little hairy sometimes, but as long as I keep those processes
rolling then I can stay on task pretty well. And it's, it's really just a matter
of, you know, I have to know what the deadline is, what the story is. And then
I'll, I'll say, Okay, so if my story is x and I have to have it due by y, then I
need to start, you know, three weeks out, four weeks out, whatever,
00:25:00you know, interviewing people, transcribing interviews, gathering photos, and
all that kind of stuff. So it's really just a matter of, you know, building it
from, from the backend.
HARVEY: Um, and after you get all that information, what is your, your writing process?
KIMBERL: You know, it's funny because there, there was this Oatmeal cartoon
that I cannot find anywhere, like probably ten years ago, about the creative
process and how it kind of spews out uncontrollably when you least expect or
want it. And that is really what the process is like for me because, you know, a
lot of times I'll have a story in the shower or I'll have a story in a dream or,
you know, like I'll just have this, this idea in the back of my head. And it
stays for so long that I'm like, I have to write this to get it out, you know.
And so it's, it's kind of like almost a compulsive behavior where by the time I
sit down to write, I have everything outlined in my head and I just have to get
it out of there and put it on the page.
HARVEY: Um, who, who has been your, your, favorite, uh, I'm
00:26:00sorry--who has been your favorite editor through your working time that you've
worked with?
KIMBERL: You know, I've worked with a lot of really amazing editors. Um, you
know, uh, Elizabeth, Elizabeth Grace was my first editor at Louisville.com and
she was awesome. She was really fun. And, you know, she, she's the one who gave
me the freedom to just go and do. Uh, you know, I worked with Nino Marchetti at
The Whiskey Wash. He was, he was really great. You know, he gave me a lot of
freedom as well. And, uh, you know, then Amanda Schuster I worked with at the
Alcohol Professor. And, uh, you know, she was--she pushed me a lot, which was
really fantastic. Uh, you know, I'm working currently with Phoebe Calver and
Christopher Coates, uh, for Whisky Magazine and American Whiskey Magazine. And,
you know, Christopher has been working for Paragraph longer than I
00:27:00have, and we've just recently become acquainted. Um, and, you know, we just had
the most wonderful conversation the other day over a Zoom call. And, you know,
it was just, it was really nice and really refreshing just to realize how much
we're on the same page about things, especially, you know, the digital
publishing side of things. Um, so, you know, and I've worked with Clay Whitaker
at the Bourbon Review, and, you know, he's, he's been phenomenal, um, you know.
And, so it's just--it's, it's nice to work with a, a wide range of people
because everybody has their own style, but I understand and appreciate all of them.
HARVEY: Um, can you explain your current roles with Whisky and American
Whiskey Magazines?
KIMBERL: Yeah, so, uh, with American Whiskey Magazine I'm the content editor,
which means that, you know, as we're laying out the content for that issue, I'll
say, You know, I think that we need to have a theme around, you know, this
topic, or I would like to see more coverage of this topic or, you know,
whatever. Or, you know, I'll bring in new writers and say, I think we
00:28:00need to give this person a shot. And so, uh, you know, that's, that's been
really great. But then I've also, uh, you know, I'm big into--excuse me, spring
in Kentucky, got to have those allergies, right? Um, I'm a really big, uh,
content developer on the web side of things. And so, um, you know, with American
Whiskey Magazine, I have had a hand in helping to build their web strategy and
their web content, which has been--you know, that's the kind of thing that I
really enjoy is saying if we do this, this, and this then the audience will
come. And then people listen to me and the audience comes and that's very
rewarding. Um, I have also had that experience. I built, um, the bourbon
historian, Michael Veach's website. Uh, you know, he was one of the ones that I
was covering back in my Louisville.com days. And I would say, "Hey, do you have
a website? You know, where can people learn more about you?" And he
00:29:00would always say, "Yeah, you know, I'll, I'll get to it eventually. It's on the
back burner." And finally, I was just like, "Hey, can I just build you a
website? It'll take me like three hours." And so I went over to his house and
sat at his kitchen table and put together his website and was like, "Okay,
here's your website." And then he was like, "Can you just run it for me?" And I
was like, "Yeah, yeah, I can do that." And so, you know, he's had phenomenal
success with his website because, you know, he has a lot to say. And that's a
really great position to be in if you're trying to build an audience. But then
also, he left all of the SEO [search engine optimization] technical stuff to me,
and he was just like, "Do whatever you need to do there." And he had his biggest
day ever last Monday which was over five thousand page views in a day, um, which
is, you know, he, he crossed over--last year, he crossed over a million page
views of all time, you know, and that's just phenomenal success for one guy's
blog. Um, so, you know, those are the kinds of things that I get really excited
about, is seeing somebody, you know, building success, building
00:30:00audiences, and things like that.
HARVEY: That's awesome. Congratulations on being a part of that and helping
him grow--
KIMBERL: --thank you.
HARVEY: Um, so as a content, content editor at American Whiskey Magazine, did
you take that role when they first started the magazine or was it something you
grew into after working there for a little bit?
KIMBERL: Yeah, so I had been--and I'm still--and, and I kind of glossed over
the whole Whisky Magazine side of things. I've been a columnist at Whisky
Magazine, um, you know, since before American Whiskey Magazine was even
launched. And, that, you know, that means I've got the pages and, uh, you know,
page in the front to just talk about whatever whiskey topic suits my fancy,
that, that issue. And then I'll do, sometimes, additional stories in the
magazine. One of the most recent ones I did that was really interesting was the,
uh, scientific reasons why women make better whiskey tasters than men. And, you
know, I got to actually read like scientific studies and talk to college
professors who had done the studies and things like that, which was,
00:31:00which was, really cool. Um, but as far as being the content editor of American
Whiskey Magazine, I kind of just got rolled into American Whiskey Magazine, uh,
because, you know, they, they--I had already been working with, the, the people,
you know, the editors and the whole team for so long, they were like, "Okay, we
need you to write some more content for this new magazine we're launching,
launching." So I did that. And then after a couple of issues, um, you know, they
said, "Hey," um--or actually no, they didn't even tell me. I got one of the
advance copies, and I opened it up and saw that my name was in the, the,
editorial block on the masthead that said, "content editor." And I called my
publisher, and I was like, "Well, this is cool." He was like, "Yeah, what do you
think about that? We thought, you know, maybe you would like that." And I was
like, "Yeah, that's awesome." So you know, it's been really great and I've
enjoyed having that responsibility. One of the things that I took on pretty
early on was collecting the blind review samples for the back of the magazine.
So Peggy Noe Stevens and Susan Reigler are our tasters. And we had a
00:32:00company that had been collecting the samples and, you know, preparing them and
then mailing them to Susan and Peggy. And they went out of business and kept all
of our bottles, so we were kind of scrambling. And I was like, "Well, I'll take
care of it this month." And then it just kind of snowballed from there, so now
like I am basically like a receiving dock--(laughs)--for many, many bottles of
bourbon every single week. Uh, you know, the, the joke is, we come home and
there are stacked up packages on, on the front porch, and they're like, "Mom,
the bourbon fairy came again." (both laugh) So that's what, that's what all of
this is over here is, uh, you know, those are samples that I'm going to be
preparing for the magazine in upcoming issues.
HARVEY: That's awesome. Um, can you describe the culture working with, like,
the English-based, uh, publisher being an American writing about
00:33:00American whiskey and just whiskey in general?
KIMBERL: You know, I thought it was going to be weird and it's, it's, it's
very much not weird. And I feel like it's weird that it's not weird if that
makes any sense. But, you know, uh, uh, there's a really great team over there
at the Paragraph home base and, you know, everybody that I've worked with over
there. You know, when I first started Rupert Wheeler was the editor and, you
know, he's, he was very laidback. It was, "What do you want to do? Okay, that
sounds fine." And then, um, Rob Allanson, uh, took over form Rupert when Rupert
retired. And, you know, Rob was very much the same way, "Well, what sounds good
to you? Yeah, that works," and, and, you know, kind of just let me have whatever
creative control I wanted. Uh, and then when Phoebe came on, you know, that was
really exciting because she took on the role of editor in chief of American
Whiskey and so I got to work a little bit more closely with her. And, uh, you
know, she had a journalism degree and was like, you know, had all
00:34:00these ideas and wanted to hear my ideas. And so, you know, we, we worked
together a lot more closely as far as, you know, that back and forth and talking
about, you know, ideas and, uh, you know, the goals that we want to accomplish
with the magazine and, and, things like that. And so, you know, it's, it's
really been--they're really great to work with. I've really enjoyed it and I
hope I get to keep doing it for a really long time.
HARVEY: Um, with the, the creative freedom that you have, what do you see
currently as, like, the most important stories to be writing about?
KIMBERL: You know, one of the things that is near and dear to me is telling
the stories that people don't expect. Um, because, you know, one of the things I
hear all the time is, "What's it like being a woman in a male-dominated
industry?" And I'm like, "It's not." (laughs) That's what it's like. It's not a
male-dominated industry; it really never has been. There's always been a
perception that it's a male-dominated industry and there's always been a
perception that men are the only consumers, um, and that just has not
00:35:00been historically the case. So, you know, one of the things I like to do is find
those stories of women and people of color who have been involved in the
industry for decades and nobody knew their story or who they were, and just
really telling those stories. Uh, that's, that's been just such a delight, uh,
you know, to be able to say, you know, to challenge perceptions. That's, that's
really what it's all about, like I just--I want to challenge those perceptions.
HARVEY: Um, so how does it feel to be in that position where you're kind of
shaping the image of the industry, being, um, a spokesperson like talking about
the industry? And--
KIMBERL: --I mean it's something that I take really seriously. Um, so, I, I
like to frame it in relation to, you know, when I was a kid, the Kentucky
economy was all about coal and tobacco. And those--both of those
00:36:00things have kind of died off pretty significantly, even in, you know, my forty
years on this planet. And, you know, when I was in high school everybody I knew
was leaving, everybody was going, you know. They were maybe going to college
here but then they were leaving to find jobs, uh, because there just was not a
whole lot going on here. And, you know, I, I look at what I'm doing now as a way
to revive the economy and to highlight the hard work that people have been doing
to keep this industry going, uh, so that there's something here for my kids in
the future. If they want to stay in Kentucky, they, they can find jobs, uh, you
know. So I, I, take it very seriously because I want Kentucky to do well. And
when Kentucky does well, we all do well. And that's really like where I see my
place in all of this.
HARVEY: Um, so, uh, kind of changing the pace a little bit, what do
00:37:00you--what writing advice do you give most frequently to people that ask?
KIMBERL: You know, it's, it's hard. So, um, you know, don't work for free is a
big one because, especially in this industry, for any sort of writing gig that
comes up there are dozens of people lining up willing to do it for free. Um, but
that ends up not working out so well for the publication and for the person. And
it ends up being this, like, kind of nonstop churn of people who, you know, get
excited, get burned out, get excited, get burned out. So, you know, it's okay to
work for cheap if you're trying to build--you know, build a brand and, and,
build your body of work, and all that kind of stuff, but don't work for free.
The other thing is, you know, just find your niche, you know, find your style.
And be authentic, you know. You have to be authentic about what you care about
or it's going to, you know--your writing is going to seem fake and contrived.
So for me, it's all about, you know, I'm still really into the
00:38:00farm-to-table movement and, you know, all kinds of social issues. And so that
really comes across in my writing because, you know, I want to show that, you
know, farming is a big piece of this industry and that women are a big piece of
this industry and that people of color are a big piece of this industry. And
that it's not just, you know--what the perception has been for decades is that
it's, you know, an old white man's blue collar, you know, kind of drinking
industry because it just--it, it hasn't been that.
HARVEY: Um, and what's the best advice that you've received in your, your career?
KIMBERL: I've gotten a lot of really great advice. One of them is act like you
belong. Uh, because, you know, sometimes when you're--I, I kind of grew up in,
you know, like a working-class background where, you know, I didn't really know
a lot of the social niceties that I was supposed to follow. And so
00:39:00that makes it, you know, very stressful to go into a new situation not knowing
what the expectation is. And so, you know, if you just kind of look around and
see what everybody else is doing. That kind of helps to kind of ease the tension
and, and, make you feel a little bit more comfortable. Um, and so that's, that's
kind of a big one, you know. But that's really for, you know, if you're coming
from a working-class background and, and, kind of covering something that is a
little less, uh, working-class. Um, you know, I've received a lot of really
fantastic advice. It's really hard to say what the best advice is, um, but, you
know, that's one that always sticks out to me.
HARVEY: How has, uh, being a woman influenced your path into the world of
whiskey writing and into the bourbon industry itself?
KIMBERL: Well, so like I mentioned before, I really like to uncover
those stories about women who have gone before me and, uh, really kind of
challenge the notion that women have not been involved in the
00:40:00industry because we have, you know, I mean even if you're looking at people who
owned distilleries or, you know, have--played a major role in bourbon history. I
go back to Mary Dowling all the time. Um, she owned Waterfill & Frazier in
Tyrone, Kentucky, which is near modern-day Wild Turkey. And, uh, you know, when
prohibition hit she was like, "No, I'm not going to deal with this." And she
packed up her still and grabbed a beam and went to Juarez, Mexico, and started
making bourbon in Juarez, Mexico during prohibition. And, uh, you know, so there
are a lot of stories like that of women who have had a major impact on the
industry. And I really credit Fred Minnick for uncovering a lot of those stories
in his book, Whiskey Women. Uh, you know, that was one of the early
introductions that I had to the industry was reading that book and realizing, Oh
hey, there's a lot more going on here than, you know, folks are letting on, and
maybe I need to do some digging.
00:41:00
HARVEY: Um, as a--using that as a segue, I, uh, understand you recently
stepped into the role of president for the Bourbon Women's Association.
KIMBERL: I did, yeah--
HARVEY: --congratulations on that.
KIMBERL: Thank you.
HARVEY: Um, can you tell me about Bourbon Women as an organization? You know,
they're just entering their tenth-year anniversary--
KIMBERL: --yes.
HARVEY: Uh, can you explain what you all do there?
KIMBERL: Yeah, absolutely. So one of the reasons why I was so excited to take
on this role is because, um, Peggy Noe Stevens was the first master taster in
the Kentucky bourbon industry, who is a woman. And, um, so she started this
organization shortly after leaving, uh, her role at Brown-Forman to start her
consulting company because she recognized that there was a gap in, uh, you know,
the, the ways that these brands were reaching women and, you know, like how
bourbon was being marketed to women or how it was not being marketed
00:42:00to women in, in, particular. And so, you know, she wanted to create an
opportunity for, you know, women to have a comfortable relationship learning
about bourbon, um, for brands to have a better conversation with women
consumers, and then also to support women in the industry, uh, you know. Because
ten years ago, people still believed that there were no women in the industry,
even though she was a master taster for Woodford Reserve. Um, you know, so it
was, it was her vision that brought this to fruition and, you know, it was, it
was a huge honor for her to come to me and say, you know, "I want you to take
over leadership of this organization." And you know, what that means to me is
that I get to continue the work that she started, but I get to take it into the
next decade and beyond. Um, because now we know that women like
00:43:00bourbon, we know that women are in the industry, and we know that there is still
a lot of opportunity for brands to have better conversations with their, their
women consumers.
HARVEY: Um, how big is the association? Is it like a Kentucky-based area or is
it a more nationally?
KIMBERL: It's huge, and I didn't realize how big it was until I started. We
have twelve branches currently across the United States. So we've got--it, it,
I'm seeing, I--let me see if I can name them all--so we've got California,
Colorado, Texas, Missouri, uh, and then Chicago, Indianapolis, Cincinnati,
Northern Kentucky, South Carolina, Georgia, Michigan, New York, and
00:44:00then I think National is the twelfth one. And so the really astonishing thing is
the Bourbon Women Association really pivoted to full virtual in 2020, um, and
they did a really great job. You know, it was not just your average, you know,
Zoom conference kind of a thing. They actually had really phenomenal production
value, you know, shooting it in a studio and, and, all that kind of stuff. And
through, through 2020 we added twenty percent to our membership rolls, and we
are continuing to grow every single day. It's, it's astonishing to me. You know,
we're still doing virtual events for the most part. Uh, some places have opened
up to, you know, socially distanced smaller in-person events, but for the most
part we're still just doing virtual events. And every single time we do a
virtual event, I'll see ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, people getting
memberships. And it's, it's just really amazing to see.
HARVEY: What type of, uh, events do you all put on?
00:45:00
KIMBERL: So in person, we have our annual SIPosium, and that had to pivot to
virtual last year. But this is a huge conference. Uh, you know, the last one
that I went to, the last one that we had in person was in 2019. I went to that,
um, as an attendee and it was probably over four hundred women at the Seelbach
Hotel in, in Louisville. And there were, you know, Fawn Weaver gave the keynote
speech, of--Fawn Weaver of Uncle Nearest. And she was phenomenal, just the
energy in the room was amazing. Um, you know, there were all kinds of different
classes from cocktail classes to classes about grains. And, you know, it's
really, um, it's a little bit different than your typical whiskey festival,
which is usually based around, you know, taking your glass into a room and
drinking as much as you can--(laughs)--um, uh, you know, because, there, it,
there's a lot of educational, uh, component to it. And so the, the, women who
are a part of Bourbon Women are really interested--you know, like
00:46:00yes, they love a good bourbon, they love a good bourbon cocktail, but they also
want to learn about it and they also want to be engaged in the culture. And so
that's what makes it really unique. Now coming up, you know, we've been doing a
lot of, um, virtual tastings with distilleries. One of our most recent ones was
Three Chord Distillery in Michigan, which was founded by Joan Jett's
husband--(laughs)--which was really cool. He had some really awesome stories to
tell. Um, you know, I am doing Cigars 101 virtually here coming up because my,
my, bourbon and cigar pairing seminars are things that I do at festivals all
over, you know, whiskey festivals all over the country, and they're always
completely sold out. And so I thought, you know, maybe our women would like to
learn, you know, first about cigars and then we can do one about, uh, pairing
cigars and, and, bourbon. And, you know, already, we've sold ten tickets
and it's not even coming up for another three or four weeks. Um, so,
00:47:00we have a lot of really exciting stuff on the horizon. Um, you know, our
branches do a lot of events locally and then we try to do, um, you know, a few
things nationally virtually to keep everybody kind of tied together. Um, but the
big one is our annual SIPosium, which is going to be taking place in August in
Louisville, Kentucky.
HARVEY: And you all just recently announced that that's going to be a mixed
in-person and Zoom format. Um, what kind of went into your decision to open it
up in, in a limited scope?
KIMBERL: Yeah, so like we heard over and over and over again from our members
like, "We want to be there in person, we want this to happen, you know. It's
okay if we have to be masked, we don't mind that, you know, we really
just"--there are a lot of women in this organization who consider this their
kind of yearly homecoming or, you know, class reunion kind of a thing. And so
you know, all, they, they all really wanted to do this in person. Now
00:48:00because we are still in the COVID pandemic, um, you know, we had to make some
modifications. And one of those is that we're cutting our capacity. Um, so our
hotels are currently at half-capacity, even though the Commonwealth of Kentucky
has opened up to sixty percent. And so that really severely limits the number of
people that we can get there in person. Uh, but so that kind of fed into the
decision to add that virtual component because one, we want to make sure if you
want to participate then there's still a way to participate. Um, two, you know,
there are a lot of people who maybe have been impacted financially and can't
make a big trip this year for this--for that sort of thing, and so they can
still participate and still feel like they're part of it. And three, there are
still people who, you know, are a little bit apprehensive for health reasons,
uh, you know, might not want to go into a--you know, it's not going to be a huge
crowd like a music festival or something like that. But, you know,
00:49:00maybe a hundred fifty, two hundred people is still outside of their comfort
level. So, there, there, were a lot of reasons why we made that decision. And
ultimately, you know, it'll be interesting to see because all of our virtual
events that we've had have had, you know, a fantastic turnout. We did a toast to
the tenth virtual, virtual event back in February, and, um, you know, I think we
ended up having close to four hundred ticket holders for that. And then each
ticket holder would have--you know, a lot of those people were multiple people
or they would have get--they would do get-togethers and have viewing parties and
things like that. So, you know, we had a lot of engagement on, you know, social
media and our website and stuff during that event, which tells us that people
were really engaged and interested in what they were, what they were seeing.
HARVEY: Um, in your, your, role as president of the Bourbon Women Association,
what responsibilities do you have? And what are your goals trying to expand
membership and, uh, increase the reach of the association?
00:50:00
KIMBERL: So expanding membership has been a lot easier than I thought because
really, like I said, every single time we have, uh, any sort of virtual event,
it's--you know, we're getting three or four or five members every single time,
which is--you know, it's, it's very encouraging to see because it tells us that
people are interested in what we're doing. But they're also interested in, you
know, getting back out and starting life again, um, and, and doing it in a way
that's safe and responsible. Um, so, you know, that part of it is the easy part
because people love what we do and they love to engage, you know, and people are
just looking for fun things to be a part of right now. Um, so outside of that,
you know, my main goal is fundraising to keep this organization going. And
that's something that is a bit of a challenge because it is--you know, we're
still in a recession. And a lot of the smaller distilleries in particular have
been hit really hard by the recession and, you know, the continuing
00:51:00situation with tariffs and things like that. Um, so, you know, it's
really--it's, it's a challenge, but that's kind of one of the things that drew
me to it because I'm up for that challenge, you know. I want to see this
organization succeed and I have the drive to make it happen.
HARVEY: That's awesome. Um, before you joined--or before you, um, became
president of the association, what was your role and when did you join?
KIMBERL: So I have been, uh, involved with the Bourbon Women Association for
many years. Uh, you know, Peggy and Susan--Peggy is the founder, Susan was one
of the founding members, and, you know, I've worked with them on the magazine
for years. So I was involved in--when we pivoted to the virtual symposium last
year, I was one of the presenters, um, you know, so I've, I've had a lot of
involvement with them for years. And, you know, it was definitely an
00:52:00honor to be chosen, uh, for this leadership position and I hope to do a good job.
HARVEY: And were you chosen by Peggy for the position?
KIMBERL: I was.
HARVEY: Okay. Um, what ways do, the, the Bourbon Women's Association
facilitate mentoring for women hoping to join the industry or just anyone within
the industry?
KIMBERL: So we have a lot of different things that we're doing. And, and,
really, um, you know, mentoring is one of the questions that we ask on our
intake form when people join, like do you want to be a mentor, do you need
mentoring, you know, how can we help you. And, you know, women will come to me
all the time and say, you know, "I want to do x, y, z. What's--what advice do
you give me?" And I tell people like I have an open-door policy, you know. My
email is right there on the mission and leadership page. And so if there's
anything I can do to help you, send me an email. And I've had several
00:53:00members take me up on that. You know, I had one who was saying, you know, "I had
this, this travel blog and it got put on the back burner because of COVID, and
I'm trying to, you know, get it back, uh, rolling again. And you know, I'm just
wondering, do you have any advice for doing that?" And so I went back and forth
with her and I looked at her website, and I said, you know, "I think you should
do this, this, and this. And then, you know, talk about this, do this." And so,
you know, it's really just a matter of, you know, letting people know you can
reach out to me anytime. Um, and then we have a lot of women on our board who
are very much the same, so if I don't know the--you know, if, if I don't have
experience with the particular thing that you're looking for, I know someone who
does and we can definitely make that happen.
HARVEY: Um, if you were able to change one aspect of the bourbon industry
today, uh, and allow it, like, the Bourbon Women's Association, to make that
change, what change would you make?
00:54:00
KIMBERL: Oh, gosh, I don't know. I mean policy wise, I would like to see some
modernization of beverage alcohol laws. Uh, that's one of the things that's been
the most difficult for us to deal with throughout the pandemic because people
don't understand that it's not like going to Amazon and you can just get it
delivered to your house. Some places you can get it delivered, uh, but every
time you cross an invisible line on a map, it changes who can ship in and who
can receive and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, that's been one of our,
our biggest challenges for our virtual platform is--you know, the first thing we
ask distilleries when they come to us and say, you know, "We want to do a
virtual tasting with your members." We say, "Okay, well where can you ship?" Um,
and that's, that's really where the conversation has to start. And so, you know,
and those are all throwbacks to the prohibition era. So when
00:55:00prohibition was ended, uh, there were two parts to the act that ended
prohibition. The first one said, "Prohibition is over," the second one said,
"And every state can make their own laws about alcohol and, about, about
beverage alcohol." And so what ended up happening is there are three sets of
laws in every state: One governs beer, one governs wine, and one governs
distilled spirits. So I had someone in, um, Missouri say, you know, "We're the
home of Budweiser, so I know for a fact that you can ship alcohol to me." And I
said, "Nope, they, they--Missouri is one of the places where you cannot ship
alcohol from anywhere, uh, whatsoever, not even within the state." And so you
know, educating people about those laws and why they are the way that they are,
and then really opening the opportunity to potentially change those laws is
something that, that, I would love to see. And, uh, you know,
00:56:00bourbon--the Bourbon Women Association is active with DSCUS, the Distilled
Spirits Council of the United States. And, you know, they have, um, an entire
portion of their business that is dedicated to educating consumers about changes
in alcohol laws and any sort of action that they can take, you know, grassroots
activism kind of things to create a better environment for distilled spirits in
their state.
HARVEY: Have there been any like rumblings or conversations about starting to
change those like in, within the government, or is it still--
KIMBERL: --so there have been a lot of temporary laws enacted because of the
pandemic, um, as, you know, kind of like a carrot, if you will, to keep the
distilled spirits companies going throughout the pandemic. And, uh, you know,
that, it, it's not just shipping, it's also like to-go cocktails, uh, from
restaurants and bars. And a lot of those are temporary. We've seen, I
00:57:00think, you know, three or four of them become permanent across the United States
so far. Um, Kentucky legalized direct-to-consumer shipping, but I think we only
have reciprocity with a handful of states at--currently. Um, so you can get
Kentucky spirits shipped to you, and you can get spirits from a couple of other
states, but really not everywhere and not everyone. Um, so you know, we still
have dry counties in Kentucky. So it's like every time there's an imaginary line
on the map, the laws change. And that's one of the things that's really
frustrating for consumers right now.
HARVEY: Um, with all the changes going on right now, um, how is the Bourbon
Women Association hoping to help women overcome all these different changes? And
how do you see kind of the role of women expanding in the industry?
KIMBERL: Well, right now, we really just want to support women in the industry
and support our members. Because gosh, everybody is going through a
00:58:00tough time, right? And, uh, you know, our members are--you know, women are
leaving the workforce, for example, at an unprecedented rate because, you know,
we, we bear the lion's share of responsibility for the family. And, you know,
when schools are closed and daycares are closed and all that sort of thing, it
really kind of, uh, puts women in a difficult position. And so, you know, we are
a respite for our members, um, you know, we give them the ability to have, still
those friendships and those, you know, fun experiences, even though things may
not be going super well for them right now. And so that's, that's a really
important thing to us. But then also, we support women in the industry. So one
of the things that I started, um, I mean within weeks of starting this, this
job, was I started a series on our blog called "Meet the Makers," and I wanted
to highlight women in all aspects of the industry. And so I started
00:59:00off with some distillers and some brand ambassadors and, and, uh, distillery
founders and all that kind of stuff and they're all, you know, they're all
women. And, um, you know, I have content currently scheduled out for that
through the end of the July, um, and women knocking on my door, uh, figuratively
speaking, saying, "How do I become a part of this? You know, how can we get this
person highlighted, how can we get that person highlighted?" And it just really
shows me and it shows, you know, our members and anybody else who's watching
that there are a lot of women in this industry. And maybe they're just getting
the spotlight as they deserve.
HARVEY: Um, what changes have you seen in the distilling and writing industry
over the, the past five years?
KIMBERL: Um, you know, everybody wants to be a part of it, and, um, probably
not everybody should. (laughs) Um, like there's, there's a lot
01:00:00of--there's a learning curve for writing about this industry. And I think people
come at it from a hobby standpoint and then they realize, you know, like it's,
it's not a hobby for the people who are working in this industry. And, you know,
having an opinion about somebody's job and how they're performing at their job
is maybe not a super nice way to go about it. Um, so, you know, I see a lot of
people--there's a lot of anger and, you know, the, the consumers always want to,
you know, be angry and complain about things that they haven't been educated
about yet. And so like I see myself oftentimes, you know, reaching out to some
of the newer writers and saying, "I understand how you came to this conclusion,
but have you considered this evidence as well?" And, uh, you know, that's,
that's something that I will continue to do because, uh, you know, people come
up with some pretty pretty crazy extrapolations based on their very
01:01:00limited experience in the industry. And, you know, I take exception to that, you
know, it's, it's kind of like a personal thing for me to hear people attack
brands because they don't understand. Um, you know, one of the, one of the most
recent ones was somebody was complaining about Heaven Hill's brands because none
of those, uh--none of the people on the labels ever worked for Heaven Hill. And
so I said, um, you know, "So Heaven Hill was started after prohibition by five
Jewish brothers. And this was during the time of, you know, World War I had just
ended, World War II was about to start, and we all know what happened during
World War II. So you're telling me that in that anti-Semitic climate, five
Jewish brothers should have started a brand called Old Shapira and that would
still be around?" And he was like, "Oh, you know, I didn't think about it that
way." And so, um, you know, it's--there's a lot of history that people don't
take into consideration, you know, when they're, they're forming
01:02:00opinions based on their, their brand-new experiences with the industry.
HARVEY: Um, that's, that's very interesting, I didn't know that about the
Heaven Hill brothers. Um, what was it like to be a woman in, the, the news
industry in the 2010s and then as the editor of, uh, American Whiskey Magazine?
KIMBERL: So, uh, there's, there's this funny quote that I heard years ago, and
I wish I could remember who said it. Um, I believe it was Nicole Austin, uh,
who's now with George Dickel. Um, but somebody asked her what, what it was like
being a woman distiller and she was like, "Well, how would I know any different,
you know, because I only have the experience that I have." Um, I will say that
the distilled spirits industry is considerably more welcoming to women than I
think a lot of people realize. Um, I've certainly not had the same experience
in, uh, the, the tobacco industry and the premium cigar industry.
01:03:00That's a very like machismo kind of industry. And I have a few really amazing
friends and supporters in that side, but it's a little bit harder to break
through in, in, that side of things. The distilled spirits industry, very
egalitarian, I think surprisingly so.
HARVEY: Um, how has your experience being a writer and editor shaped your
goals as you begin your position as president of the Bourbon Women's Association?
KIMBERL: Well, you know, what--like I said, one of the first things that I did
was start telling women's stories. Um, you know, that was, that was really--that
came from my background as being a writer and editor because I saw like this is
a niche that would be very appropriate to our, our audience, um, and that's
something that I can bring to the table, if you will.
HARVEY: Um, what has helped to broaden the audience, uh, for bourbon, uh, to
include women, and what has helped, like, explain that this idea of
01:04:00the male-dominated industry isn't really what it is?
KIMBERL: I think the storytelling. It's all about the storytelling. So, you
know, as, as my colleagues and I have uncovered more and more of the stories
that kind of show how inclusive the industry is, you know, it has opened it up
to make it feel a lot more comfortable for people. Um, you know, Michael Veach,
the bourbon historian, was one of the early ones that did a story about how
American whiskey is a melting pot. You know, there was also this perception that
it was all Irishmen and Scotsmen who came over to America with their stills on
their backs and, you know, kind of, kind of, silly stuff like that. And sure,
there were definitely people who did that, but a lot of the early bourbon barons
were Jewish immigrants who were escaping anti-Semitism in, in Europe. They were
Eastern Europeans, they were Europeans, uh, not just--you know, there
01:05:00were Welsh and, you know, Spanish and French and German and all kinds of folks
who were coming over into the melting pot of America and making this unique
American product and, you know, it's, it's--America's a melting pot. Bourbon is
also a melting pot.
HARVEY: Um, what roles do you think whiskey publications have in shaping,
like, the taste of the bourbon world with the taste that people want to see?
KIMBERL: You know, that's a difficult one because it's, you know, it--what
comes first, the, the carrot or the horse? Um, and it's, it's really interesting
because I think in a lot of ways, we have an opportunity to show people things
that they've not seen or considered before, um, you know. But at the same time,
nobody is going to read if it's all just like crazy obscure stuff. So it's a
balance. It's really a balance as far as, you know, showing people
01:06:00the things that they want to see, but then also saying, "Hey, if you like this,
maybe you should check this out as well." Um, so, in a lot of respects, we are
thought leaders, um, in the industry. Uh, but that's a, that's a responsibility
that we take very seriously, you know. We don't want to tarnish the image or,
you know, so--we, we, look at things like responsibility and, you know, who's
doing good work and, and, whether the product is being well made and things like
that before we, you know, present a new, um, a new player to the market.
HARVEY: Um, a little change of pace, but, um, recently the Kentucky
Distilleries Association formed an Advisory Committee on Diversity and, and, uh,
Inclusivity. How do you see that having an effect on the bourbon world and the
industry?
01:07:00
KIMBERL: That's something, you know, again, that has been on everybody's minds
for a very long time. It's something that's certainly been on my mind. That's
something--it's something that I have pursued, you know, editorially for a very
long time. Um, and it's something that's going to make the industry as a whole
stronger. Uh, you know, we talk a lot about the perceptions versus reality. You
know, the reality is that there have been women and people of color in this
industry for a very long time. They just maybe weren't highlighted and
celebrated like they should've been. Um, you know, I, I recently had the honor
of speaking to a woman named Elmer Lucille Allen who was the first Black chemist
ever hired by Brown-Forman and she was hired in the sixties, and I just learned
about her like two months ago. Um, so that was--it, it's always really
interesting, you know, if you can surprise me, then there's still work to be
done, right? And so, uh, you know, that--there's a lot more in
01:08:00earnest seriousness about the, uh, importance of uncovering those stories,
telling those stories, but then also, you know, creating the stories of tomorrow.
HARVEY: Um,what are some other--what are some of the steps that the industry
has taken to prioritize the--diversity and inclusion? And how does Bourbon Women
hope to intervene positively in that area?
KIMBERL: Absolutely, that's a great question. So one of the things that
Bourbon Women did last summer in the wake of the tragedies with Breonna Taylor
and George Floyd was, you know, one, say we support the Black Lives movement.
But two, we also announced a diversity and inclusion initiative, and so that is
something that I am tasked with bringing to fruition. And I have that whole
program outlined. We are looking at, uh, you know, like a business school style
cohort program where we have an application process and bring in, uh,
01:09:00women. And our goal is, you know, half and half white women and women of color,
uh, because that supports really all aspects of, you know, what the Bourbon
Women's Association is about. And we want to train them on skills that are going
to give them greater opportunities within the industry, so--and it's, you know,
our plan is to train women in different area--each cohort will be a different,
um, topic. So we're looking at Stave and Thief certification first which really
helps women in the restaurant and hospitality industry, which as you know is, is
hurting right now. So you know, we want to, we want to use our resources where
they will be most impactful, and that is what's going to be most impactful this
year. And then, you know, down the line, we're looking at things like, uh, you
know, distiller training and things like that at Moonshine University,
and then, you know, spirits market training and, and so on and so
01:10:00forth. So just for the Bourbon Women's side of things, that's, that's how we are
looking to help this industry is to train women and, you know, including women
of color to go out in this industry and make their mark. Uh, within the broader
industry, it's really just been a matter of, you know, talent acquisition and
finding those people who can make a difference and who can make a positive
difference and elevating them to a level where, you know, they're able to
achieve their full potential. And I see that in so many different, uh, ways and
in so many different companies right now because they're just saying, you know,
"Gosh, we've been emphasizing, you know, these men for so long and, you know, we
really haven't emphasized the work that our women are doing." And, you know,
that work is just as important. And, you know, you have companies like
Brown-Forman who have elevated two women, uh, to very high positions.
01:11:00Uh, Elizabeth McCall and Jackie Zykan are two of the highest-ranking women in
the Kentucky bourbon industry. Um, but, you know, Brown-Forman also has an
amazing track record with LGBTQ people and, uh, you know, Elmer Lucille Allen,
who was the first Black chemist since the sixties, uh, you know. So they,
they've had a really good track record of providing those stable jobs and, you
know, high-ranking positions to a wide variety of people.
HARVEY: Um, what role do you see many of the aficionado groups like the
Bourbon Women and others like Whiskey Chicks, the Black Bourbon Society, and the
Kentucky Black Bourbon Guild, like what role do they have in changing the
industry and the consumership?
KIMBERL: Yeah, I mean I think it's really each, each one of those groups
has a different approach to bringing people to the table. And so, you
01:12:00know, if you think about bourbon as this, this whole, and before there was only
like this one pie slice that was being paid attention to, then, you know, you
have all these new pie slices coming in where people are entering from different
vantage points and, uh, you know, different levels of inclusion and appreciation
and all that sort of thing. So I, I really love and admire the work that all of
these groups are doing. And then, you know, there, there are all kinds of other
groups that people have probably not heard of. Pretty much anywhere you go
you're going to have an enthusiast group near you. Uh, one of the ones that--I,
I did the first story when they first formed was the British Bourbon Society.
This was just a group of bourbon enthusiasts in, in London that would meet at a
bar once a month. And, you know, they reached out to me on Twitter and we became
friends. And since then it's grown to, you know, they have, you know,
01:13:00I think eight thousand, uh, followers now, and I have gone on barrel picks with
them in Kentucky before. Uh, so, it's really cool to see, you know, that spark
that inspires people to get involved and then how they run with it and, and grow that.
HARVEY: That's really interesting that that grew so quickly--
KIMBERL: --yeah--
HARVEY: --over in London. Um, how do you see the work of Bourbon Women in
relation to some of those other groups, like the Whiskey Chicks?
KIMBERL: Um, so, Whiskey Chicks, I was also involved with for a very long
time. Linda Ruffenach is the founder. She's a great friend of mine. I'm actually
in her book. And I met one of my best friends at one of her events many, many
years ago. Um, and that's a really great, a really great group because it's
very, you know, laidback. They do a lot of fun stuff, you know. They do like,
uh, pub crawls and, and all kinds of really neat fun stuff. Bourbon
01:14:00Women tends to be a little bit more, um, you know, formal, uh, which is nice
because, it, you know, it's nice to have those, those different ways of
approaching the, the enthusiast groups. Some people really want that sit-down
fancy dinner and some people just want to go out and do a pub crawl with their
friends. uh, then you get into like the, the Black Bourbon Society. Uh, Samara
Davis, uh, I've known for several years. She's awesome. I'm a big fan of the
work that she's doing. Um, and, you know, uh, that whole group was founded out
of her frustration of the lack of understanding of Black consumers. And, um, you
know, she's done a phenomenal job at, you know, pulling the industry in and
saying, you know, it, it's not, you--Black consumers are not a monolith. It's
not, you know, young urban people. It's, you know, people from all over, uh,
with all kinds of, uh, you know--from all different levels of, um,
01:15:00you know, socioeconomic backgrounds and education levels and things like that.
And so she's done a really phenomenal job of not just bringing in, uh,
enthusiasts but also educating the, uh, the sector, the entire, uh, bourbon or
distilled spirits sector about these consumers.
HARVEY: Um, in the past year, uh, COVID has had a major impact all around the
world. Um, what has been the impact on the bourbon industry within the
production and within the distilleries?
KIMBERL: Um, one of the most interesting things is that, uh, you know, the,
the Kentucky Distillers Association went to the governor like right off the bat
and said, you know, "Don't shut us down. We will make sure that our people are
safe." And so a lot of the distilleries shut down tours so they were not
bringing in, you know, the, the, that constant stream of outside
01:16:00people because they really wanted to protect their people so that they could
protect their ability to, you know, maintain those jobs and keep production
going. And so, uh, like we saw a lot of distilleries shut down to visitors or,
uh, you know, severely curtail visitor experiences because they wanted to
protect their employee base so that they could keep the distillery running. Um,
so, you know, the--it's, it's very complicated to say what was caused by what
because, you know, we also had tariffs in the, in the EU that have been just
decimating the smaller distilleries. Um, so the spirits industry as a whole in
the United States has suffered for a number of reasons. Um, a lot of the
distilleries were able to pivot and make hand sanitizer for a while to, you
know, keep cash flow going. Uh, but a lot of the distilleries had been looking
at expanding to European markets, and that was just completely shut
01:17:00off for them, you know, pretty much right at the beginning of the pandemic, so
they got hit with a double whammy. A lot of the larger distilleries have been
doing really well, but again, that global market has really contracted and that
has hurt even the biggest players. Um, but, you know, we know from history that
the distilled spirits industry has been through challenging times before and
they will get through it.
HARVEY: Um, I've read a bunch about, um--they're expecting a big like economic
rebound, big boost after the pandemic, they've seen it through other pandemics.
Um, are they expecting that to help within the, uh, within the bourbon industry?
Are they expecting to see a boost too once the pandemic comes to a close?
KIMBERL: You know, I, I can't say what other people are expecting, but what I
would expect is that--and what I'm seeing really is that people are ready to get
back to, you know, having hobbies. And, you know, first, people are
01:18:00going to go visit their, their friends and relatives, but then immediately after
that they're going to be looking for something fun to do, so it just makes
sense. A lot of people are saying, you know, it's going to be the roaring
twenties but, you know, just with a delayed reaction. (laughs) And I think
that's really going to absolutely be the case. I think that there are a lot of
people who are going to be ready to get back to the bars, have a drink with
their friends, celebrate, you know, ready to get back to those distillery tours
and in, in full force, and like really get down to the nitty-gritty and, and see
the production side of things. And, uh, you know, because a lot--most distillery
tours right now are not going into the production side because, you know, again,
they're protecting those employees. So I think a lot of people are going to go
see their friends and family first, but then they're going to be ready to have a
fun time.
HARVEY: Um, how has the pandemic impacted the writing and production
of the American Whiskey Magazine and the Whisky Magazine?
01:19:00
KIMBERL: Uh, we are actually stronger than we've ever been. You know, with the
pandemic people have become voracious readers, uh, which has helped us
tremendously. Uh, you know, the readership on the website has gone up, but also,
you know, the readership of our print magazines. And, uh, subscriptions for
print magazines have gone up, which is surprising, but not really because, like,
what else are you going to do but sit at home and read and dream. (laughs)
HARVEY: Has it been more difficult to find stories to put in the magazine? Or--
KIMBERL: Never. I've never ever had a problem, like I never run out of things
to talk about. You know, I, I maintain pretty close relationships with the
people in the industry. So when things are happening, you know, I'm hearing what
people are doing and how they're reacting and, and, what, what they're planning
on doing next. And, you know, it just constantly sparks, you know, this
imagination of what that could lead to and gives me all kinds of
01:20:00ideas all the time. And, uh, you know, uh, a lot of the writers that I know are
in the same boat where, you know, they're saying, you know, "We have all these
great stories to tell." I thought it was going to be difficult at the beginning
of the pandemic to continue to tell stories because I got a lot of my
inspiration from traveling. Um, in 2019, I was on the road one week out of every
month and that continued into January of 2020 when I went to Portland to visit
Westward Distillery. And then, you know, when that shut down, I was like, well,
where am I going to meet new bartenders or learn new cocktails or, you know,
learn about new products? But then a lot of the distilleries, distilleries
pivoted and continued to do, uh, you know, these Zoom meetings and, you know,
virtual events and things like that. And so, they were coming up with some
really interesting things. Like, uh, Cooper's Craft did, um, a cocktail and
cookie painting party for, uh, the holidays, which was really fun.
01:21:00You know, we just sat there and painted our cookies and sipped our cocktails and
talked about the, the brand and what was coming next and, you know. So, I, I
really appreciate all the work that the brands put into, uh, keeping us all
connected because it made it a lot easier to come up with, uh, new story ideas.
And I also got creative and I started, um, learning more about kosher cocktails.
So I had learned about kosher whiskey, um, you know, probably a year or two
before the pandemic. And then, um, you know, a Jewish congregation approached me
and said, "Hey, would you like to do a program about kosher whiskey and kosher
cocktails after our Habdalah ceremony, uh, you know, on Saturday night?" And I
said, "Well yeah, I would love to." And so that gave me an opportunity to kind
of dig deeper into, uh, kosher whiskey and kosher cocktails. And I was able to
actually, like, do a kosher cocktail demonstration and then, uh, talk to
this, uh, congregation about the Jewish history of Kentucky bourbon.
01:22:00
HARVEY: Uh, that's really--very interesting. Um--
KIMBERL: --um-hm.
HARVEY: What has your experience been balancing the, uh, stay-at-home mom,
working with, uh, you know, your children through the pandemic, and being a
content editor and the president of, uh, Bourbon Women?
KIMBERL: You kind of have to let things go, you know. Uh, you have to, uh--I,
I've been talking to my kids a lot about this throughout the pandemic. Um,
everybody is in the same boat, and if--you know, you can't feel like you're
behind because everybody's behind. And so there are a couple of, uh, sayings
that we live by. One is that old Winston Churchill saying, "If you're going
through hell, keep going." Uh, and we talk about that all the time, "Yeah, I
understand that you're really frustrated with your virtual school right now, but
if you don't finish it then you're going to have to do it later. So
01:23:00how about if, you know, just get through it." And then other one is, "Embrace
the suck," you know. And we knew early on in the pandemic that things were going
to be difficult, that the economy was going to crash, and that, you know, people
were going to lose jobs and, and all kinds of bad things were going to happen,
uh, but you just have to get through it. And so, uh, you know, it's, it's been
really just a matter of managing expectations and offering a lot of grace.
Because you know, I, I am very clear with my kids that I don't expect you to
have a stellar school year. I expect you to hate this--(laughs)--but you are
very fortunate to have an opportunity to continue to learn throughout the
pandemic because of the technology that we have available to us now. And so, uh,
you know, it's, it's been difficult but I feel like we're all handling it pretty well.
HARVEY: Um, I have a few wrap-up questions for you, just--
01:24:00
KIMBERL: Yeah.
HARVEY: What's your favorite bourbon?
KIMBERL: Whatever you're buying. (both laugh)
HARVEY: And how do you like to drink it?
KIMBERL: Usually neat, uh, or in a cocktail. But again, however you serve it,
I'm not complaining.
HARVEY: Um, in your opinion, what makes a good bourbon?
KIMBERL: Oh, passion. I mean I think that whoever is making it has to be
passionate about being in the industry, uh, you know. And we definitely have
that from, you know--if you look at the, the legacy distillers here in Kentucky,
those distilleries that made it through, um, you know, prohibition or made it
through World War II or made it through, uh, the downturn of the bourbon economy
in the seventies and eighties, uh, they stuck with it because of passion. The
newer craft distilleries, if they get into it for the right reasons and they
have that passion, then they're going to make a good product.
HARVEY: Um, what bourbon would you recommend for someone who says
01:25:00they don't like bourbon?
KIMBERL: I mean I would want to know what they do like. So if you like scotch,
I would probably recommend Four Roses. If you like wine, I would probably
recommend something that is finished in a wine barrel. If you like rum, I would
probably recommend something that is finished in a rum barrel.
HARVEY: Um, what advice would you give to students trying to enter the bourbon industry?
KIMBERL: Um, just look for any opportunities you can, um, as far as, uh,
internships. You know, I, I was not able to do any internships when I was in
college. I actually had my first internship in my thirties because that was when
I got to it and I was able to do it. But if you have the opportunity, uh, look
for internships, look for volunteer experiences. Um, you know, if you have a
particular distillery that you're interested in, learn everything that you can
about that distillery and, you know, call them up or, or email them and say, you
know, "I'm really interested in your distillery. Can I do an
01:26:00internship?" And a lot of distilleries will create an internship for you if they
feel that it's the right opportunity. Um, so just really get to know, uh, you
know, the history and get to know the brands, and figure out what you are most
interested in and go for what interests you.
HARVEY: Um, I know you said currently Bourbon Women Association is rapidly
expanding. Um, how do you see that trend moving in the next five to ten years?
KIMBERL: I think we're going to continue to grow because, you know, we've been
around a decade now. We know what we're doing, we've established our, uh,
reputation in the industry and, you know, throughout the, uh, consumer groups.
We're very well respected by the brands. And you know, the women who join our
ranks have a phenomenal time, you know. They, they always enjoy the programs
that we put on and, you know, the camaraderie that we have within our
01:27:00ranks. And so, you--like, I think that the sky is the limit. I think we're going
to continue to grow into the next decade.
HARVEY: And, uh, what type of expansion are you expecting or, um, are you
planning for in the next five to ten years with the American Whiskey Magazine?
KIMBERL: American Whiskey Magazine is doing phenomenally well. You know, it
was kind of an experiment when it was launched. Uh, you know, Damian, who is the
publisher for Paragraph, the entire Paragraph Publishing organization, really
saw an opportunity. Uh, you know, Whisky Magazine had really been focused on
scotch for a long time. And then there was a little bit of, you know, yes,
there's also Canadian whiskey and yes, there's also American whiskey. But then
he saw the dynamic growth that was taking place in the American whiskey industry
and realized, you know, there's, there's a real opportunity here.
HARVEY: Um, what do you see, uh, the growth in the bourbon industry in, in the
next five years, and what are important trends that we should be
01:28:00paying attention to?
KIMBERL: Uh, well, not just within the bourbon industry, within the distilled
spirits industry as a whole, uh, American single malt is a huge category that's
growing leaps and bounds right now. Uh, that's one of the things that the
smaller craft distilleries are doing to kind of distinguish themselves from the
Kentucky bourbon industry, is saying, you know, "We can do whiskey also. But it
can be a little bit different and we can put our own stamp on it." And so we're
seeing a lot of--not just in American single malts, but in ryes and even in
bourbons, we're seeing a lot of regional and philosophical, uh, takes on
different types of whiskey throughout the United States.
HARVEY: Um, what aspirations do you wish will become reality within this next
generation entering the industry?
KIMBERL: I really hope that people will--you know, there, there's a really
great saying that Buffalo Trace has, "Honor history, embrace change."
01:29:00And I really hope that people who are entering the industry right now will take
the time to understand and honor that history as they are moving toward
embracing whatever change is inevitable.
HARVEY: Uh, is there anything else you'd like to add or make sure is on the record?
KIMBERL: I have been absolutely unbelievably fortunate to be able to do what
I, what I have done in my career. And I have enjoyed it so much, and I have so
many people to thank for it, I can't even begin to thank them all. Uh, and I
just want people to know that I love what I do. Every day of my life is a
fantasy camp. And also, you know, I do what I do for my kids so that they will
have a future here.
HARVEY: Thank you so much for talking with me today.
KIMBERL: Thanks, Alex. It's been great.
[End of interview.]