Interview with Maggie Kimberl, April 26, 2021

HARVEY:  Hello, my name is Alex Harvey. As a student in Doctor Fernheimer's Bourbon Oral History course in Spring 2021, I am conducting this interview as part of my work for that class and the Women in Bourbon Oral History Project. Today is April 26, 2021. And it is my great honor and pleasure to interview Maggie Kimberl using TheirStory here in Lexington, Kentucky. Thank you so much for joining me today.

KIMBERL:  Thank you for having me.

HARVEY:  We're a year into the COVID-19 pandemic. How are you doing?

KIMBERL:  Uh, you know, as well as can be expected. I know that a lot of folks around me have been having a very difficult time, especially our friends in the restaurant and hospitality industry. Uh, but all things considered, things have been going pretty well for me.

HARVEY:  Great. Um, for the official record, can you please state and spell your name?

KIMBERL:  Yeah, my name is, uh, Maggie Kimberl--it's actually Margaret, but I go by Maggie, M-a-g-g-i-e K-i-m-b-e-r-l, it's Kimberly without the Y.

HARVEY:  And, when and where were you born?

KIMBERL:  I was born in Louisville, Kentucky.

HARVEY:  Um, we're going to talk a little bit about your family background, um--

KIMBERL:  Okay.

HARVEY:  What are your parents' names and occupations?

KIMBERL:  Uh, my mother is Elizabeth Surgener and she is a licensed counselor. And my father is Chuck Kimberl, and he has owned--he's retired now, but throughout my life he owned multiple construction companies, uh, and was a contractor and engineer.

HARVEY:  Uh, when and where were they born, and where do they reside now?

KIMBERL:  Uh, my mom was born, uh, I believe, in Paducah. Uh, she may--either Louisville or Paducah, I can't remember. Uh, my dad was born in Jacksonville, Florida. And my mom lives in Florida now. My dad lives in Kentucky.

HARVEY:  Okay. Um, how many siblings do you have, and what are their 00:02:00names and ages relative to you?

KIMBERL:  I have two sisters and a stepsister. Uh, my stepsister is older than me. She--her name is Kristy Nichols. Uh, she just turned fifty. And then I have two younger sisters. Jennifer Potts is my closest sister in age. We were born thirteen months apart, and then, uh, Barbara Kimberl is my youngest sister.

HARVEY:  What is your earliest memory or experience with bourbon?

KIMBERL:  Oh, that's a good one. See, I've been trying to figure that out for a while. Uh, the, the first time that I remember actually liking bourbon, um--you know, bourbon has kind of--when you grow up in Kentucky, bourbon is kind of like in the wallpaper, you know, it's like just all around you, and so like I never really noticed it much. But the, the first time that I remember actually trying bourbon and liking it, um, a friend of mine had brought a pint of 00:03:00Eagle Rare to another friend's wedding. And before we went into the wedding, we were all standing around in the parking lot passing around a pint of Eagle Rare, taking sips off of it. And I was like, "Hey this stuff is actually pretty good."

HARVEY:  That's really interesting.

KIMBERL:  Yeah.

HARVEY:  Um, now that we've talked a bit about the--your family background, let's, uh, shift gears and focus on your childhood.

KIMBERL:  Okay--

HARVEY:  --um, can you tell me about your experiences growing up in Louisville?

KIMBERL:  So I grew up in a suburb of Louisville called Prospect, and, uh, I grew up down on the river. It was, it was a very, uh, river-centric culture. We, you know, all of our neighbors in our neighborhood had boats. My dad had a sailboat, and so we would go out sailing all the time on the river. Um, you know, all the neighbors had speedboats, so they would do water-skiing while we were out there sailing. And, you know, we were big into fishing and all kinds of stuff like that. Um, you know, I like to tell people I grew up in the 00:04:00Bougie holler--(laughs)--which are two things that probably shouldn't go together but do. Um, and then my parents divorced when I was in elementary school. And I went to live with my dad out in Skylight, Kentucky, which was, uh, really one of the main centers of thoroughbreds. So I grew up in the midst of, um, many, many massive, beautiful thoroughbred farms. Hermitage Farm is out there, uh, Longfield Farm was out there. There were just so many beautiful thoroughbred farms out there. So one of my--probably, my, my, my second official job was I worked at the Skylight Country Store for about four and a half years when I was in high school and, and, early college. And that was right across the street from Longfield Farm where they, they bred thoroughbred horses for the Derby.

HARVEY:  That's awesome.

KIMBERL:  Yeah.

HARVEY:  Um, growing up where, uh, where did you go to school and 00:05:00when did you go from elementary to high school?

KIMBERL:  Yeah, so I grew up in Oldham County which is one of the suburbs of Louisville. And I went to Goshen Elementary and South Oldham Middle and South Oldham High School. And I graduated from South Oldham High School in 1999 and then started at the University of Louisville right after that.

HARVEY:  Awesome. Um, what did you want to be when you, uh, when you grew up when you were little?

KIMBERL:  So when I was really little, I wanted to be a doctor. And I think that was my dad's influence because he always told me, "You're going to be a doctor. You're going to be a doctor. You're going to be a doctor." And I was like, "Okay, that sounds good." Um, and so for, a real--I mean probably well into middle school I was like, "Yeah, I'm going to be a pediatrician when I grow up." And, uh, I'm not sure when that stopped being appealing to me. It was probably when I figured out how much college costs--(laughs)--and I was like, "Yeah, I, I don't think I can afford to be a pediatrician," um, or, 00:06:00or any other kind of--anything that requires, you know, continuing education past a normal college degree. So, uh, you know, I started thinking about, uh, other career paths. And when I graduated from high school, the intention was to be a high school teacher. And so when I started at University of Louisville, I started, um, you know, with educational courses. And, uh, you know, I did some substitute teaching after high school and pretty quickly realized that that was not, uh, a good fit for me and, you know, just kind of moved on from there.

HARVEY:  Awesome. Um, so at the University of Louisville, uh, you majored in English and philosophy, correct?

KIMBERL:  Correct, yes, yes I did.

HARVEY:  Can you explain how you moved to English and philosophy from that secondary, uh,  education?

KIMBERL:  Yeah. Well, so throughout college, I was, I was taking courses that would set me up to have a good foundation for, uh, you know, high school, being a high school teacher. Um, you know, it included a lot of language 00:07:00courses, a lot of, uh, you know, history courses, linguistics courses, things like that. And the original intention was to major, uh, in English and minor in a foreign language. I had chosen German, and, uh, you know, and I'd been looking at Russian and a whole bunch of other things as well. And, you know, the, the idea was, maybe I can--that would make me more marketable, uh, you know, to have two subject areas that I could teach. And, uh, you know, I quickly got into linguistics, and really the emphasis in my college education was linguistic anthropology. And that's kind of where I ended up taking a whole bunch of different European language--or, you know, learning about a whole bunch of different European languages. So I took German, uh, twelve credit, credit hours of German, um, and I did coursework in Italy one summer. I did, uh, 00:08:00you know, summer, a summer abroad studying in Italy. And I had taken Spanish in high school and Latin in middle school and French in middle school. And so, you know, I had, you know, pretty much the, the full range of, um, a lot of European languages, which really helped me to understand linguistics and the history of language and, you know, like the, the mother tongue theory of linguistics. And so that was something that was always very interesting to me. And that kind of evolved into, you know, I, I think I am a writer and I think I need to just be a writer.

HARVEY:  That's awesome. Um, do you see your study of different languages come out in your work when you're writing about bourbon?

KIMBERL:  Absolutely. And, you know, it's really interesting because, uh, my, my two main publications that I write for, American Whiskey Magazine and Whisky Magazine are based in the United Kingdom and, you know, we have a lot of conversations. I had a wonderful conversation stuck in traffic with 00:09:00my, my publisher. We were headed to the Kentucky, uh, Bourbon Festival and got stuck in traffic for two hours. And we just had this amazing conversation about linguistic anthropology and the fact that, the, the English that people speak in the United States is closer to the English of the settlers who came over than the people who are in England speaking English because their English more rapidly evolves. And one of, the, the reasons behind that is because when a group of people leave their, their native home, they tend to hold more closely to their traditions for a lot longer and for many more generations. While, you know, the folks at home are still going about business as usual and things are changing and evolving at, you know, a natural pace. So, you know, it, it's always really interesting to get into those conversations with my 00:10:00British counterparts because they have a lot to say about it as well.

HARVEY:  That is, uh, very interesting. Um, when you were in college, were there any extracurriculars that you were a part of that went hand in hand with your writing?

KIMBERL:  Well, so I didn't get to do a whole lot of extracurriculars when I was in college. Um, I was on scholarship and I was working full-time, and so working full-time and going to school full-time there's not a whole lot of opportunity for, for much else. Um, so--but I was very active in the honors program, and I was the University--I graduated as a University Honors Scholar, which meant that, you know, you had to be involved for a certain period of time and with a certain GPA and all that sort of thing with the, the University Honors, uh, Program. And so that was really the closest thing that I had to an extracurricular activity was hanging out in the Honors House with, you know, the other Honors students. And we did, you know, we did, um,  00:11:00conferences and things like that. Uh, you know, I did a lot of volunteering through the Honors House. Uh, but really, as far as, you know, sports or clubs or anything like that, um, you know, I just unfortunately didn't have a lot of time for that.

HARVEY:  That's very impressive, congratulations on--

KIMBERL:  --thank you--

 HARVEY:  --the Honors. Um, so after you graduated, what was life like for you moving into the real world from the college world?

KIMBERL:  It was jarring. I mean so, you know, like, I grew up with my dad and stepmom who, you know, did not have college degrees and, you know, worked in, uh, you know, sales and entrepreneurial things. And so I didn't have, like, a whole--I didn't have a very good idea of, you know, how to make that transition. And, you know, I didn't feel like I, I had anybody in my life who I could talk to about that. And so, you know, I, I tried my best, I was like well, you know, I'll just send some resumes out and see what happens. And ended up, 00:12:00you know, in, in a couple of jobs that were not a great fit for me and, you know, not really sure how to get on a career path and didn't have a framework for that, and so it took me a while. You know, it took me a while to get into, uh, you know, figuring out networking, and, and all those kinds of things that are more apparent if you are more involved in college life. Unfortunately, I was not able to be, uh, because I was working full-time unloading trucks in a grocery warehouse to put myself through college. Um, so it took me a really long time to kind of get the swing of things and get a--you know, figure out how to start. You know, it was, it was a lot of false starts, if you will, you know, I tried a bunch of different things, and they didn't work out. And ultimately, you know, I, I figured it out later, but I was a stay-at-home mom for a while. And then, you know, I really, um, started back into the workforce as a part-time clerk in a liquor store, and that's really where the next part of the 00:13:00journey began for me.

HARVEY:  Um, so, the--working as a clerk in the liquor store, um, how did that affect your, your move into the bourbon industry and into the writing portion of it?

KIMBERL:  That's a really great question. So, uh, you know, I worked part-time in the evenings and--so I was still a stay-at-home mom during the day taking care of the kids. But then when my husband came home from work, I would go into the liquor store and, and, do my, do my time there. And that was really an opportunity to learn about, you know, the wine and spirits market and about wine and spirits in general. So, you know, like I had originally intended to learn about wine because I thought that would be a marketable skill going forward. And, you know, I kind of quickly figured out that wine people are maybe not my people. And I was really interested in the farm-to-table movement at that time, and so I was kind of looking at the whiskey section, you know, the 00:14:00bourbon section saying, you know, they make that stuff right down the street; maybe I should learn about it. And, you know, that was back in the days--this was eleven years ago now--uh, when I was doing that. And, um, that was back in the days when the master distillers would come and sit in a store and sign bottles and do tastings, and nobody really knew who they were. And, you know, that's kind of crazy to think about now because they're, like, basically rock stars. And, uh, you know, so I met a whole bunch of really awesome master distillers at that point in my life, and, uh, you know, like Chris Morris would be in there making mint juleps for Derby Week. And, you know, sometimes we would have cigar rollers in the store for Derby Week and things like that. And it, you know, it was just a lot of really interesting people that I was meeting. And so, um, one year during Derby Week, uh, Jim Rutledge, who was with Four Roses at the time, was in my store doing a tasting and, bottle, bottle signing. 00:15:00And I don't know if you know anything about Derby Week in Kentucky, but everything is pandemonium, chaos, and pandemonium. And it's the exact same way at the liquor store during Derby Week. And so I would be behind the cash register and all the people would clear out, and I would try to walk around and go talk to Jim Rutledge. And a whole hoard of people would come in and I would have to go right back to the cash register. And it was like that for, you know, three or four hours, however long he was there. And then he was packing up to leave and I had to go on break, and I was like, Oh well, I guess I'll talk to Jim Rutledge next year. Whomp, whomp--(laughs)--you know. So I went back in the break room and started eating my sad little peanut butter sandwich. And the next thing I knew, Jim Rutledge came through the door with bottles in one hand and cups in the other hand. He--and he was like, "You didn't get to do my tasting." And I was like, "Okay, this is awesome." So he sat down with me for probably twenty minutes, and he taught me the proper bourbon tasting technique, a little bit about the history of Four Roses, why they have ten different 00:16:00recipes, which recipes are in which bottle, you know, "You can taste this in here, you can taste this in here." And I was like, "This is amazing, I have to tell the whole world about this." And, uh, shortly after that, I had quit my job and started writing about whiskey. And so, you know, I had been writing for a mommy blog here in, in Louisville called Louisville Family Fun, and I'm still writing for them. Uh, you know, it's been ten years, eleven. I mean it's been a long time. Uh, but I had been writing for them for a little while and I was trying to figure out, like, you know, I love writing for them, but I need to write about something else that is interesting to me, and not just my kids, you know, because that's a really fine balance you have to strike as a parent is, you know, being interested in your kids and then also having your own interests. And so, you know, I started looking around. I was, I was still really into the farm-to-table movement, still am today. And, uh, you know, I, I was just like I need to write about this bourbon stuff, I need to tell people about this. Because this is really cool and it's happening right in my own back 00:17:00yard, and that's, like, kind of a big thing. And so I quit my job and started writing about whiskey.

HARVEY:  That's awesome.

KIMBERL:  Yeah.

HARVEY:  Um, so we're starting Derby Week this week. Do you have anything going on, any big plans with, you know, writing or any experiences that you can talk about? That--

KIMBERL:  --you know, it's--okay, so this is, this is really funny, but I've actually never been to the Derby and I've never been to The Oaks. Uh, I've been to Churchill Downs. And the closest I've been is I go--I have gone the last few years--well not last year, but, uh, the, the years before that, I've gone on Derby Week on Wednesday, uh, to the Brown-Forman Finish Line Suites, which has been, you know, really nice. It's a nice experience. Um, I'm taking my kids to the track next month. I have the Kentucky Colonel's box. I'm also a Kentucky Colonel. Uh, so I'm taking my kids to Millionaire's Row, which I think they're really excited about. Uh, but I've never actually been to the Derby, 00:18:00so--and, you know, this year, it's, it's definitely different. Um, you know, it--they're not going to have folks in the infield, you know. It's going to be a scaled-back number of spectators, but I think people are still really excited about it. Um, so, I'm looking forward to--I think at this point, since I've never been I have decided that the first time I go I'm going to make sure that my kids get to go too.

HARVEY:  That's awesome. Um, even with the pandemic and your rise through the bourbon world, how has it been balancing that, that family life, the stay-at-home mom, with the growing professional and leadership roles that you're beginning to take on?

KIMBERL:  You know, it's, it--balance is really important, and, that is, that's absolutely the key. Uh, you know, it's really just a matter of you have to get a job that is flexible enough, uh, to allow you to do what you need to do at home. And I've been very fortunate, um, you know, I, I worked in marketing 00:19:00also for the last, uh, seven years. I had a marketing job at a company called NowSourcing that makes infographics. And, uh, you know, that, that was a really flexible schedule. And if I needed to take off to go to a whiskey festival or if I needed to leave early to pick up kids or, you know, if I needed to go to the school play in the middle of the day or, you know, whatever it was, there was that flexibility there. And that's something--you know, it's really important for parents to be upfront about the fact that, you know, yes, I do have a life outside of this job. And, and I mean that's important for everybody, it's not just parents. But I feel like it's especially important for parents because, you know, you want your kids to, to understand that you're still a part of their life even if you're not there for every single thing. And, uh, you know, that's, that's really important. So flexibility in your job is key. And, you know, being able to say I'm going to push pause right now and I will unpause, you 00:20:00know, later on at home after, after dinner or after the kids go to bed or whatever it is, you know. You have to have that flexibility to be able to get it all done.

HARVEY:  Um, how old are your, your children now?

KIMBERL:  My kids, uh, are about to turn twelve and fourteen, they are currently eleven and thirteen. I have two boys.

HARVEY:  Okay, awesome. Um, so, after you left the liquor store to begin writing, where did you start? What was your process to get into that, into the writing world?

KIMBERL:  So I stared at Louisville.com, which is the online component of Louisville Magazine. And that was a really great segue because I had pretty much ultimate freedom about what I wanted to write about. It didn't pay very well, and the tradeoff was that, you know, "Because we're not paying so well, you can pretty much write whatever you want." And that was absolutely phenomenal for me to get my career off the ground because, you know, I had the opportunity--I had a lot of opportunity there. And I'm--that's--I, I leveraged that 00:21:00opportunity to go out and meet people and cover festivals. You know, I basically, anything anybody emailed me, you know, "Do you want to come to this? Do you want to do this? Do you want to cover this?" I said yes. I said yes to everything. And, you know, like I would do distillery tours and festivals and events and all this other stuff. Uh, you know, the, the Derby Museum had--would have these really great, um, programs with Fred Minnick, and, you know, the--I'm sure they'll bring those back after the pandemic is over. But, you know, they would have really amazing guests. Uh, Ed Foote was one of the ones that I met at that, uh--at the Kentucky Derby Museum. Legend Series is what it's called. And so, you know, like, I just got to meet a lot of people in the industry doing it that way. And, uh, you know, it didn't pay very well but it helped me launch my career. And from there, I went to the Whiskey Wash and then to the Alcohol Professor and then Whisky Magazine and then, uh, you know, when, when 00:22:00the Parapgrah, uh, Paragraph Publishing, which is the parent company of Whisky Magazine, launched American Whiskey Magazine, um, over three years ago now, I was pretty much in that on the ground floor.

HARVEY:  That's really interesting that you were there and you got to help start up this American version of it, um--

KIMBERL:  Yeah.

HARVEY:  Do you remember what your first essay that you had published was, your first article?

KIMBERL:  So, um, the first article that I ever wrote for Louisville.com was, uh, "Louisville's Top Ten Bourbon Bars." Because, you know, when, when you're writing for websites like that, it's all about clicks and engagement and that's the kind of thing that gets a lot of engagement. Uh, the first thing that I ever had published was in a now-defunct magazine in the United Kingdom called The Carouser. And it was, uh, it was uh, "Why Louisville is, uh, the Best Bourbon City" or something like that, I can't remember exactly what the title was. It's been so long ago now. Um, and then for Whisky Magazine, when I 00:23:00started for Whisky Magazine, I did a story about the Pappy Van Winkle barrel-fermented cigars, uh, that are made by Drew Estate. And I actually got to travel to Nicaragua with Jonathan Drew, uh, and tour the factories and, you know, see the cigars being made and all that kind of stuff for that story, which was really cool.

HARVEY:  What was the, the feeling when you first saw your, your name published? In, um--

KIMBERL:  --it was, it was pretty cool. You know, I always want to take it to my kids first and be like, "Who's that? Can you read that?" (laughs) And, uh, you know, they get a kick out of that kind of thing. So now whenever my son sees me, you know, like sometimes we'll be in the car and I'll come on the radio--(laughs)--and they'll be like, "That's you, mom, that's so cool." Um, and so, you know, now my, my, sons are basically my best PR, you know. They'll, they'll tell anybody and everybody who listens, "My mom is Madam 00:24:00Colonel President Maggie." (both laugh)

HARVEY:  Um, so you worked for multiple different, you know, magazines and different sources--uh, outlets. Um, can you explain just, like, what bouncing around, working with each of them was like?

KIMBERL:  Yeah, I mean, you know, it's a lot of, uh, time management and process management. I'm a big fan of spreadsheets, and so, like, I use Google Calendar and spreadsheets and all that kind of stuff to keep everything straight because I do have to be in a lot of different places at the same time. Um, so, it, it gets a little hairy sometimes, but as long as I keep those processes rolling then I can stay on task pretty well. And it's, it's really just a matter of, you know, I have to know what the deadline is, what the story is. And then I'll, I'll say, Okay, so if my story is x and I have to have it due by y, then I need to start, you know, three weeks out, four weeks out, whatever, 00:25:00you know, interviewing people, transcribing interviews, gathering photos, and all that kind of stuff. So it's really just a matter of, you know, building it from, from the backend.

HARVEY:  Um, and after you get all that information, what is your, your writing process?

KIMBERL:  You know, it's funny because there, there was this Oatmeal cartoon that I cannot find anywhere, like probably ten years ago, about the creative process and how it kind of spews out uncontrollably when you least expect or want it. And that is really what the process is like for me because, you know, a lot of times I'll have a story in the shower or I'll have a story in a dream or, you know, like I'll just have this, this idea in the back of my head. And it stays for so long that I'm like, I have to write this to get it out, you know. And so it's, it's kind of like almost a compulsive behavior where by the time I sit down to write, I have everything outlined in my head and I just have to get it out of there and put it on the page.

HARVEY:  Um, who, who has been your, your, favorite, uh, I'm 00:26:00sorry--who has been your favorite editor through your working time that you've worked with?

KIMBERL:  You know, I've worked with a lot of really amazing editors. Um, you know, uh, Elizabeth, Elizabeth Grace was my first editor at Louisville.com and she was awesome. She was really fun. And, you know, she, she's the one who gave me the freedom to just go and do. Uh, you know, I worked with Nino Marchetti at The Whiskey Wash. He was, he was really great. You know, he gave me a lot of freedom as well. And, uh, you know, then Amanda Schuster I worked with at the Alcohol Professor. And, uh, you know, she was--she pushed me a lot, which was really fantastic. Uh, you know, I'm working currently with Phoebe Calver and Christopher Coates, uh, for Whisky Magazine and American Whiskey Magazine. And, you know, Christopher has been working for Paragraph longer than I 00:27:00have, and we've just recently become acquainted. Um, and, you know, we just had the most wonderful conversation the other day over a Zoom call. And, you know, it was just, it was really nice and really refreshing just to realize how much we're on the same page about things, especially, you know, the digital publishing side of things. Um, so, you know, and I've worked with Clay Whitaker at the Bourbon Review, and, you know, he's, he's been phenomenal, um, you know. And, so it's just--it's, it's nice to work with a, a wide range of people because everybody has their own style, but I understand and appreciate all of them.

HARVEY:  Um, can you explain your current roles with Whisky and American Whiskey Magazines?

KIMBERL:  Yeah, so, uh, with American Whiskey Magazine I'm the content editor, which means that, you know, as we're laying out the content for that issue, I'll say, You know, I think that we need to have a theme around, you know, this topic, or I would like to see more coverage of this topic or, you know, whatever. Or, you know, I'll bring in new writers and say, I think we 00:28:00need to give this person a shot. And so, uh, you know, that's, that's been really great. But then I've also, uh, you know, I'm big into--excuse me, spring in Kentucky, got to have those allergies, right? Um, I'm a really big, uh, content developer on the web side of things. And so, um, you know, with American Whiskey Magazine, I have had a hand in helping to build their web strategy and their web content, which has been--you know, that's the kind of thing that I really enjoy is saying if we do this, this, and this then the audience will come. And then people listen to me and the audience comes and that's very rewarding. Um, I have also had that experience. I built, um, the bourbon historian, Michael Veach's website. Uh, you know, he was one of the ones that I was covering back in my Louisville.com days. And I would say, "Hey, do you have a website? You know, where can people learn more about you?" And he 00:29:00would always say, "Yeah, you know, I'll, I'll get to it eventually. It's on the back burner." And finally, I was just like, "Hey, can I just build you a website? It'll take me like three hours." And so I went over to his house and sat at his kitchen table and put together his website and was like, "Okay, here's your website." And then he was like, "Can you just run it for me?" And I was like, "Yeah, yeah, I can do that." And so, you know, he's had phenomenal success with his website because, you know, he has a lot to say. And that's a really great position to be in if you're trying to build an audience. But then also, he left all of the SEO [search engine optimization] technical stuff to me, and he was just like, "Do whatever you need to do there." And he had his biggest day ever last Monday which was over five thousand page views in a day, um, which is, you know, he, he crossed over--last year, he crossed over a million page views of all time, you know, and that's just phenomenal success for one guy's blog. Um, so, you know, those are the kinds of things that I get really excited about, is seeing somebody, you know, building success, building 00:30:00audiences, and things like that.

HARVEY:  That's awesome. Congratulations on being a part of that and helping him grow--

KIMBERL:  --thank you.

HARVEY:  Um, so as a content, content editor at American Whiskey Magazine, did you take that role when they first started the magazine or was it something you grew into after working there for a little bit?

KIMBERL:  Yeah, so I had been--and I'm still--and, and I kind of glossed over the whole Whisky Magazine side of things. I've been a columnist at Whisky Magazine, um, you know, since before American Whiskey Magazine was even launched. And, that, you know, that means I've got the pages and, uh, you know, page in the front to just talk about whatever whiskey topic suits my fancy, that, that issue. And then I'll do, sometimes, additional stories in the magazine. One of the most recent ones I did that was really interesting was the, uh, scientific reasons why women make better whiskey tasters than men. And, you know, I got to actually read like scientific studies and talk to college professors who had done the studies and things like that, which was, 00:31:00which was, really cool. Um, but as far as being the content editor of American Whiskey Magazine, I kind of just got rolled into American Whiskey Magazine, uh, because, you know, they, they--I had already been working with, the, the people, you know, the editors and the whole team for so long, they were like, "Okay, we need you to write some more content for this new magazine we're launching, launching." So I did that. And then after a couple of issues, um, you know, they said, "Hey," um--or actually no, they didn't even tell me. I got one of the advance copies, and I opened it up and saw that my name was in the, the, editorial block on the masthead that said, "content editor." And I called my publisher, and I was like, "Well, this is cool." He was like, "Yeah, what do you think about that? We thought, you know, maybe you would like that." And I was like, "Yeah, that's awesome." So you know, it's been really great and I've enjoyed having that responsibility. One of the things that I took on pretty early on was collecting the blind review samples for the back of the magazine. So Peggy Noe Stevens and Susan Reigler are our tasters. And we had a 00:32:00company that had been collecting the samples and, you know, preparing them and then mailing them to Susan and Peggy. And they went out of business and kept all of our bottles, so we were kind of scrambling. And I was like, "Well, I'll take care of it this month." And then it just kind of snowballed from there, so now like I am basically like a receiving dock--(laughs)--for many, many bottles of bourbon every single week. Uh, you know, the, the joke is, we come home and there are stacked up packages on, on the front porch, and they're like, "Mom, the bourbon fairy came again." (both laugh) So that's what, that's what all of this is over here is, uh, you know, those are samples that I'm going to be preparing for the magazine in upcoming issues.

HARVEY:  That's awesome. Um, can you describe the culture working with, like, the English-based, uh, publisher being an American writing about 00:33:00American whiskey and just whiskey in general?

KIMBERL:  You know, I thought it was going to be weird and it's, it's, it's very much not weird. And I feel like it's weird that it's not weird if that makes any sense. But, you know, uh, uh, there's a really great team over there at the Paragraph home base and, you know, everybody that I've worked with over there. You know, when I first started Rupert Wheeler was the editor and, you know, he's, he was very laidback. It was, "What do you want to do? Okay, that sounds fine." And then, um, Rob Allanson, uh, took over form Rupert when Rupert retired. And, you know, Rob was very much the same way, "Well, what sounds good to you? Yeah, that works," and, and, you know, kind of just let me have whatever creative control I wanted. Uh, and then when Phoebe came on, you know, that was really exciting because she took on the role of editor in chief of American Whiskey and so I got to work a little bit more closely with her. And, uh, you know, she had a journalism degree and was like, you know, had all 00:34:00these ideas and wanted to hear my ideas. And so, you know, we, we worked together a lot more closely as far as, you know, that back and forth and talking about, you know, ideas and, uh, you know, the goals that we want to accomplish with the magazine and, and, things like that. And so, you know, it's, it's really been--they're really great to work with. I've really enjoyed it and I hope I get to keep doing it for a really long time.

HARVEY:  Um, with the, the creative freedom that you have, what do you see currently as, like, the most important stories to be writing about?

KIMBERL:  You know, one of the things that is near and dear to me is telling the stories that people don't expect. Um, because, you know, one of the things I hear all the time is, "What's it like being a woman in a male-dominated industry?" And I'm like, "It's not." (laughs) That's what it's like. It's not a male-dominated industry; it really never has been. There's always been a perception that it's a male-dominated industry and there's always been a perception that men are the only consumers, um, and that just has not 00:35:00been historically the case. So, you know, one of the things I like to do is find those stories of women and people of color who have been involved in the industry for decades and nobody knew their story or who they were, and just really telling those stories. Uh, that's, that's been just such a delight, uh, you know, to be able to say, you know, to challenge perceptions. That's, that's really what it's all about, like I just--I want to challenge those perceptions.

HARVEY:  Um, so how does it feel to be in that position where you're kind of shaping the image of the industry, being, um, a spokesperson like talking about the industry? And--

KIMBERL:  --I mean it's something that I take really seriously. Um, so, I, I like to frame it in relation to, you know, when I was a kid, the Kentucky economy was all about coal and tobacco. And those--both of those 00:36:00things have kind of died off pretty significantly, even in, you know, my forty years on this planet. And, you know, when I was in high school everybody I knew was leaving, everybody was going, you know. They were maybe going to college here but then they were leaving to find jobs, uh, because there just was not a whole lot going on here. And, you know, I, I look at what I'm doing now as a way to revive the economy and to highlight the hard work that people have been doing to keep this industry going, uh, so that there's something here for my kids in the future. If they want to stay in Kentucky, they, they can find jobs, uh, you know. So I, I, take it very seriously because I want Kentucky to do well. And when Kentucky does well, we all do well. And that's really like where I see my place in all of this.

HARVEY:  Um, so, uh, kind of changing the pace a little bit, what do 00:37:00you--what writing advice do you give most frequently to people that ask?

KIMBERL:  You know, it's, it's hard. So, um, you know, don't work for free is a big one because, especially in this industry, for any sort of writing gig that comes up there are dozens of people lining up willing to do it for free. Um, but that ends up not working out so well for the publication and for the person. And it ends up being this, like, kind of nonstop churn of people who, you know, get excited, get burned out, get excited, get burned out. So, you know, it's okay to work for cheap if you're trying to build--you know, build a brand and, and, build your body of work, and all that kind of stuff, but don't work for free. The other thing is, you know, just find your niche, you know, find your style. And be authentic, you know. You have to be authentic about what you care about or it's going to, you know--your writing is going to seem fake and contrived. So for me, it's all about, you know, I'm still really into the 00:38:00farm-to-table movement and, you know, all kinds of social issues. And so that really comes across in my writing because, you know, I want to show that, you know, farming is a big piece of this industry and that women are a big piece of this industry and that people of color are a big piece of this industry. And that it's not just, you know--what the perception has been for decades is that it's, you know, an old white man's blue collar, you know, kind of drinking industry because it just--it, it hasn't been that.

HARVEY:  Um, and what's the best advice that you've received in your, your career?

KIMBERL:  I've gotten a lot of really great advice. One of them is act like you belong. Uh, because, you know, sometimes when you're--I, I kind of grew up in, you know, like a working-class background where, you know, I didn't really know a lot of the social niceties that I was supposed to follow. And so 00:39:00that makes it, you know, very stressful to go into a new situation not knowing what the expectation is. And so, you know, if you just kind of look around and see what everybody else is doing. That kind of helps to kind of ease the tension and, and, make you feel a little bit more comfortable. Um, and so that's, that's kind of a big one, you know. But that's really for, you know, if you're coming from a working-class background and, and, kind of covering something that is a little less, uh, working-class. Um, you know, I've received a lot of really fantastic advice. It's really hard to say what the best advice is, um, but, you know, that's one that always sticks out to me.

HARVEY:  How has, uh, being a woman influenced your path into the world of whiskey writing and into the bourbon industry itself?

KIMBERL:      Well, so like I mentioned before, I really like to uncover those stories about women who have gone before me and, uh, really kind of challenge the notion that women have not been involved in the 00:40:00industry because we have, you know, I mean even if you're looking at people who owned distilleries or, you know, have--played a major role in bourbon history. I go back to Mary Dowling all the time. Um, she owned Waterfill & Frazier in Tyrone, Kentucky, which is near modern-day Wild Turkey. And, uh, you know, when prohibition hit she was like, "No, I'm not going to deal with this." And she packed up her still and grabbed a beam and went to Juarez, Mexico, and started making bourbon in Juarez, Mexico during prohibition. And, uh, you know, so there are a lot of stories like that of women who have had a major impact on the industry. And I really credit Fred Minnick for uncovering a lot of those stories in his book, Whiskey Women. Uh, you know, that was one of the early introductions that I had to the industry was reading that book and realizing, Oh hey, there's a lot more going on here than, you know, folks are letting on, and maybe I need to do some digging.  

HARVEY:  Um, as a--using that as a segue, I, uh, understand you recently stepped into the role of president for the Bourbon Women's Association.

KIMBERL:  I did, yeah--

HARVEY:  --congratulations on that.

KIMBERL:  Thank you.

HARVEY:  Um, can you tell me about Bourbon Women as an organization? You know, they're just entering their tenth-year anniversary--

KIMBERL:  --yes.

HARVEY:  Uh, can you explain what you all do there?

KIMBERL:  Yeah, absolutely. So one of the reasons why I was so excited to take on this role is because, um, Peggy Noe Stevens was the first master taster in the Kentucky bourbon industry, who is a woman. And, um, so she started this organization shortly after leaving, uh, her role at Brown-Forman to start her consulting company because she recognized that there was a gap in, uh, you know, the, the ways that these brands were reaching women and, you know, like how bourbon was being marketed to women or how it was not being marketed 00:42:00to women in, in, particular. And so, you know, she wanted to create an opportunity for, you know, women to have a comfortable relationship learning about bourbon, um, for brands to have a better conversation with women consumers, and then also to support women in the industry, uh, you know. Because ten years ago, people still believed that there were no women in the industry, even though she was a master taster for Woodford Reserve. Um, you know, so it was, it was her vision that brought this to fruition and, you know, it was, it was a huge honor for her to come to me and say, you know, "I want you to take over leadership of this organization." And you know, what that means to me is that I get to continue the work that she started, but I get to take it into the next decade and beyond. Um, because now we know that women like 00:43:00bourbon, we know that women are in the industry, and we know that there is still a lot of opportunity for brands to have better conversations with their, their women consumers.

HARVEY:  Um, how big is the association? Is it like a Kentucky-based area or is it a more nationally?

KIMBERL:  It's huge, and I didn't realize how big it was until I started. We have twelve branches currently across the United States. So we've got--it, it, I'm seeing, I--let me see if I can name them all--so we've got California, Colorado, Texas, Missouri, uh, and then Chicago, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Northern Kentucky, South Carolina, Georgia, Michigan, New York, and 00:44:00then I think National is the twelfth one. And so the really astonishing thing is the Bourbon Women Association really pivoted to full virtual in 2020, um, and they did a really great job. You know, it was not just your average, you know, Zoom conference kind of a thing. They actually had really phenomenal production value, you know, shooting it in a studio and, and, all that kind of stuff. And through, through 2020 we added twenty percent to our membership rolls, and we are continuing to grow every single day. It's, it's astonishing to me. You know, we're still doing virtual events for the most part. Uh, some places have opened up to, you know, socially distanced smaller in-person events, but for the most part we're still just doing virtual events. And every single time we do a virtual event, I'll see ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, people getting memberships. And it's, it's just really amazing to see.

HARVEY:  What type of, uh, events do you all put on?

KIMBERL:  So in person, we have our annual SIPosium, and that had to pivot to virtual last year. But this is a huge conference. Uh, you know, the last one that I went to, the last one that we had in person was in 2019. I went to that, um, as an attendee and it was probably over four hundred women at the Seelbach Hotel in, in Louisville. And there were, you know, Fawn Weaver gave the keynote speech, of--Fawn Weaver of Uncle Nearest. And she was phenomenal, just the energy in the room was amazing. Um, you know, there were all kinds of different classes from cocktail classes to classes about grains. And, you know, it's really, um, it's a little bit different than your typical whiskey festival, which is usually based around, you know, taking your glass into a room and drinking as much as you can--(laughs)--um, uh, you know, because, there, it, there's a lot of educational, uh, component to it. And so the, the, women who are a part of Bourbon Women are really interested--you know, like 00:46:00yes, they love a good bourbon, they love a good bourbon cocktail, but they also want to learn about it and they also want to be engaged in the culture. And so that's what makes it really unique. Now coming up, you know, we've been doing a lot of, um, virtual tastings with distilleries. One of our most recent ones was Three Chord Distillery in Michigan, which was founded by Joan Jett's husband--(laughs)--which was really cool. He had some really awesome stories to tell. Um, you know, I am doing Cigars 101 virtually here coming up because my, my, bourbon and cigar pairing seminars are things that I do at festivals all over, you know, whiskey festivals all over the country, and they're always completely sold out. And so I thought, you know, maybe our women would like to learn, you know, first about cigars and then we can do one about, uh, pairing cigars and, and, bourbon. And, you know, already, we've sold ten tickets and it's not even coming up for another three or four weeks. Um, so, 00:47:00we have a lot of really exciting stuff on the horizon. Um, you know, our branches do a lot of events locally and then we try to do, um, you know, a few things nationally virtually to keep everybody kind of tied together. Um, but the big one is our annual SIPosium, which is going to be taking place in August in Louisville, Kentucky.

HARVEY:  And you all just recently announced that that's going to be a mixed in-person and Zoom format. Um, what kind of went into your decision to open it up in, in a limited scope?

KIMBERL:  Yeah, so like we heard over and over and over again from our members like, "We want to be there in person, we want this to happen, you know. It's okay if we have to be masked, we don't mind that, you know, we really just"--there are a lot of women in this organization who consider this their kind of yearly homecoming or, you know, class reunion kind of a thing. And so you know, all, they, they all really wanted to do this in person. Now 00:48:00because we are still in the COVID pandemic, um, you know, we had to make some modifications. And one of those is that we're cutting our capacity. Um, so our hotels are currently at half-capacity, even though the Commonwealth of Kentucky has opened up to sixty percent. And so that really severely limits the number of people that we can get there in person. Uh, but so that kind of fed into the decision to add that virtual component because one, we want to make sure if you want to participate then there's still a way to participate. Um, two, you know, there are a lot of people who maybe have been impacted financially and can't make a big trip this year for this--for that sort of thing, and so they can still participate and still feel like they're part of it. And three, there are still people who, you know, are a little bit apprehensive for health reasons, uh, you know, might not want to go into a--you know, it's not going to be a huge crowd like a music festival or something like that. But, you know, 00:49:00maybe a hundred fifty, two hundred people is still outside of their comfort level. So, there, there, were a lot of reasons why we made that decision. And ultimately, you know, it'll be interesting to see because all of our virtual events that we've had have had, you know, a fantastic turnout. We did a toast to the tenth virtual, virtual event back in February, and, um, you know, I think we ended up having close to four hundred ticket holders for that. And then each ticket holder would have--you know, a lot of those people were multiple people or they would have get--they would do get-togethers and have viewing parties and things like that. So, you know, we had a lot of engagement on, you know, social media and our website and stuff during that event, which tells us that people were really engaged and interested in what they were, what they were seeing.

HARVEY:  Um, in your, your, role as president of the Bourbon Women Association, what responsibilities do you have? And what are your goals trying to expand membership and, uh, increase the reach of the association?

KIMBERL:  So expanding membership has been a lot easier than I thought because really, like I said, every single time we have, uh, any sort of virtual event, it's--you know, we're getting three or four or five members every single time, which is--you know, it's, it's very encouraging to see because it tells us that people are interested in what we're doing. But they're also interested in, you know, getting back out and starting life again, um, and, and doing it in a way that's safe and responsible. Um, so, you know, that part of it is the easy part because people love what we do and they love to engage, you know, and people are just looking for fun things to be a part of right now. Um, so outside of that, you know, my main goal is fundraising to keep this organization going. And that's something that is a bit of a challenge because it is--you know, we're still in a recession. And a lot of the smaller distilleries in particular have been hit really hard by the recession and, you know, the continuing 00:51:00situation with tariffs and things like that. Um, so, you know, it's really--it's, it's a challenge, but that's kind of one of the things that drew me to it because I'm up for that challenge, you know. I want to see this organization succeed and I have the drive to make it happen.

HARVEY:  That's awesome. Um, before you joined--or before you, um, became president of the association, what was your role and when did you join?

KIMBERL:  So I have been, uh, involved with the Bourbon Women Association for many years. Uh, you know, Peggy and Susan--Peggy is the founder, Susan was one of the founding members, and, you know, I've worked with them on the magazine for years. So I was involved in--when we pivoted to the virtual symposium last year, I was one of the presenters, um, you know, so I've, I've had a lot of involvement with them for years. And, you know, it was definitely an 00:52:00honor to be chosen, uh, for this leadership position and I hope to do a good job.

HARVEY:  And were you chosen by Peggy for the position?

KIMBERL:  I was.

HARVEY:  Okay. Um, what ways do, the, the Bourbon Women's Association facilitate mentoring for women hoping to join the industry or just anyone within the industry?

KIMBERL:  So we have a lot of different things that we're doing. And, and, really, um, you know, mentoring is one of the questions that we ask on our intake form when people join, like do you want to be a mentor, do you need mentoring, you know, how can we help you. And, you know, women will come to me all the time and say, you know, "I want to do x, y, z. What's--what advice do you give me?" And I tell people like I have an open-door policy, you know. My email is right there on the mission and leadership page. And so if there's anything I can do to help you, send me an email. And I've had several 00:53:00members take me up on that. You know, I had one who was saying, you know, "I had this, this travel blog and it got put on the back burner because of COVID, and I'm trying to, you know, get it back, uh, rolling again. And you know, I'm just wondering, do you have any advice for doing that?" And so I went back and forth with her and I looked at her website, and I said, you know, "I think you should do this, this, and this. And then, you know, talk about this, do this." And so, you know, it's really just a matter of, you know, letting people know you can reach out to me anytime. Um, and then we have a lot of women on our board who are very much the same, so if I don't know the--you know, if, if I don't have experience with the particular thing that you're looking for, I know someone who does and we can definitely make that happen.

HARVEY:  Um, if you were able to change one aspect of the bourbon industry today, uh, and allow it, like, the Bourbon Women's Association, to make that change, what change would you make?

KIMBERL:  Oh, gosh, I don't know. I mean policy wise, I would like to see some modernization of beverage alcohol laws. Uh, that's one of the things that's been the most difficult for us to deal with throughout the pandemic because people don't understand that it's not like going to Amazon and you can just get it delivered to your house. Some places you can get it delivered, uh, but every time you cross an invisible line on a map, it changes who can ship in and who can receive and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, that's been one of our, our biggest challenges for our virtual platform is--you know, the first thing we ask distilleries when they come to us and say, you know, "We want to do a virtual tasting with your members." We say, "Okay, well where can you ship?" Um, and that's, that's really where the conversation has to start. And so, you know, and those are all throwbacks to the prohibition era. So when 00:55:00prohibition was ended, uh, there were two parts to the act that ended prohibition. The first one said, "Prohibition is over," the second one said, "And every state can make their own laws about alcohol and, about, about beverage alcohol." And so what ended up happening is there are three sets of laws in every state:  One governs beer, one governs wine, and one governs distilled spirits. So I had someone in, um, Missouri say, you know, "We're the home of Budweiser, so I know for a fact that you can ship alcohol to me." And I said, "Nope, they, they--Missouri is one of the places where you cannot ship alcohol from anywhere, uh, whatsoever, not even within the state." And so you know, educating people about those laws and why they are the way that they are, and then really opening the opportunity to potentially change those laws is something that, that, I would love to see. And, uh, you know, 00:56:00bourbon--the Bourbon Women Association is active with DSCUS, the Distilled Spirits Council of the United States. And, you know, they have, um, an entire portion of their business that is dedicated to educating consumers about changes in alcohol laws and any sort of action that they can take, you know, grassroots activism kind of things to create a better environment for distilled spirits in their state.

HARVEY:  Have there been any like rumblings or conversations about starting to change those like in, within the government, or is it still--

KIMBERL:  --so there have been a lot of temporary laws enacted because of the pandemic, um, as, you know, kind of like a carrot, if you will, to keep the distilled spirits companies going throughout the pandemic. And, uh, you know, that, it, it's not just shipping, it's also like to-go cocktails, uh, from restaurants and bars. And a lot of those are temporary. We've seen, I 00:57:00think, you know, three or four of them become permanent across the United States so far. Um, Kentucky legalized direct-to-consumer shipping, but I think we only have reciprocity with a handful of states at--currently. Um, so you can get Kentucky spirits shipped to you, and you can get spirits from a couple of other states, but really not everywhere and not everyone. Um, so you know, we still have dry counties in Kentucky. So it's like every time there's an imaginary line on the map, the laws change. And that's one of the things that's really frustrating for consumers right now.

HARVEY:  Um, with all the changes going on right now, um, how is the Bourbon Women Association hoping to help women overcome all these different changes? And how do you see kind of the role of women expanding in the industry?

KIMBERL:  Well, right now, we really just want to support women in the industry and support our members. Because gosh, everybody is going through a 00:58:00tough time, right? And, uh, you know, our members are--you know, women are leaving the workforce, for example, at an unprecedented rate because, you know, we, we bear the lion's share of responsibility for the family. And, you know, when schools are closed and daycares are closed and all that sort of thing, it really kind of, uh, puts women in a difficult position. And so, you know, we are a respite for our members, um, you know, we give them the ability to have, still those friendships and those, you know, fun experiences, even though things may not be going super well for them right now. And so that's, that's a really important thing to us. But then also, we support women in the industry. So one of the things that I started, um, I mean within weeks of starting this, this job, was I started a series on our blog called "Meet the Makers," and I wanted to highlight women in all aspects of the industry. And so I started 00:59:00off with some distillers and some brand ambassadors and, and, uh, distillery founders and all that kind of stuff and they're all, you know, they're all women. And, um, you know, I have content currently scheduled out for that through the end of the July, um, and women knocking on my door, uh, figuratively speaking, saying, "How do I become a part of this? You know, how can we get this person highlighted, how can we get that person highlighted?" And it just really shows me and it shows, you know, our members and anybody else who's watching that there are a lot of women in this industry. And maybe they're just getting the spotlight as they deserve.

HARVEY:  Um, what changes have you seen in the distilling and writing industry over the, the past five years?

KIMBERL:  Um, you know, everybody wants to be a part of it, and, um, probably not everybody should. (laughs) Um, like there's, there's a lot 01:00:00of--there's a learning curve for writing about this industry. And I think people come at it from a hobby standpoint and then they realize, you know, like it's, it's not a hobby for the people who are working in this industry. And, you know, having an opinion about somebody's job and how they're performing at their job is maybe not a super nice way to go about it. Um, so, you know, I see a lot of people--there's a lot of anger and, you know, the, the consumers always want to, you know, be angry and complain about things that they haven't been educated about yet. And so like I see myself oftentimes, you know, reaching out to some of the newer writers and saying, "I understand how you came to this conclusion, but have you considered this evidence as well?" And, uh, you know, that's, that's something that I will continue to do because, uh, you know, people come up with some pretty pretty crazy extrapolations based on their very 01:01:00limited experience in the industry. And, you know, I take exception to that, you know, it's, it's kind of like a personal thing for me to hear people attack brands because they don't understand. Um, you know, one of the, one of the most recent ones was somebody was complaining about Heaven Hill's brands because none of those, uh--none of the people on the labels ever worked for Heaven Hill. And so I said, um, you know, "So Heaven Hill was started after prohibition by five Jewish brothers. And this was during the time of, you know, World War I had just ended, World War II was about to start, and we all know what happened during World War II. So you're telling me that in that anti-Semitic climate, five Jewish brothers should have started a brand called Old Shapira and that would still be around?" And he was like, "Oh, you know, I didn't think about it that way." And so, um, you know, it's--there's a lot of history that people don't take into consideration, you know, when they're, they're forming 01:02:00opinions based on their, their brand-new experiences with the industry.

HARVEY:  Um, that's, that's very interesting, I didn't know that about the Heaven Hill brothers. Um, what was it like to be a woman in, the, the news industry in the 2010s and then as the editor of, uh, American Whiskey Magazine?

KIMBERL:  So, uh, there's, there's this funny quote that I heard years ago, and I wish I could remember who said it. Um, I believe it was Nicole Austin, uh, who's now with George Dickel. Um, but somebody asked her what, what it was like being a woman distiller and she was like, "Well, how would I know any different, you know, because I only have the experience that I have." Um, I will say that the distilled spirits industry is considerably more welcoming to women than I think a lot of people realize. Um, I've certainly not had the same experience in, uh, the, the tobacco industry and the premium cigar industry. 01:03:00That's a very like machismo kind of industry. And I have a few really amazing friends and supporters in that side, but it's a little bit harder to break through in, in, that side of things. The distilled spirits industry, very egalitarian, I think surprisingly so.

HARVEY:  Um, how has your experience being a writer and editor shaped your goals as you begin your position as president of the Bourbon Women's Association?

KIMBERL:  Well, you know, what--like I said, one of the first things that I did was start telling women's stories. Um, you know, that was, that was really--that came from my background as being a writer and editor because I saw like this is a niche that would be very appropriate to our, our audience, um, and that's something that I can bring to the table, if you will.

HARVEY:  Um, what has helped to broaden the audience, uh, for bourbon, uh, to include women, and what has helped, like, explain that this idea of 01:04:00the male-dominated industry isn't really what it is?

KIMBERL:  I think the storytelling. It's all about the storytelling. So, you know, as, as my colleagues and I have uncovered more and more of the stories that kind of show how inclusive the industry is, you know, it has opened it up to make it feel a lot more comfortable for people. Um, you know, Michael Veach, the bourbon historian, was one of the early ones that did a story about how American whiskey is a melting pot. You know, there was also this perception that it was all Irishmen and Scotsmen who came over to America with their stills on their backs and, you know, kind of, kind of, silly stuff like that. And sure, there were definitely people who did that, but a lot of the early bourbon barons were Jewish immigrants who were escaping anti-Semitism in, in Europe. They were Eastern Europeans, they were Europeans, uh, not just--you know, there 01:05:00were Welsh and, you know, Spanish and French and German and all kinds of folks who were coming over into the melting pot of America and making this unique American product and, you know, it's, it's--America's a melting pot. Bourbon is also a melting pot.

HARVEY:  Um, what roles do you think whiskey publications have in shaping, like, the taste of the bourbon world with the taste that people want to see?

KIMBERL:  You know, that's a difficult one because it's, you know, it--what comes first, the, the carrot or the horse? Um, and it's, it's really interesting because I think in a lot of ways, we have an opportunity to show people things that they've not seen or considered before, um, you know. But at the same time, nobody is going to read if it's all just like crazy obscure stuff. So it's a balance. It's really a balance as far as, you know, showing people 01:06:00the things that they want to see, but then also saying, "Hey, if you like this, maybe you should check this out as well." Um, so, in a lot of respects, we are thought leaders, um, in the industry. Uh, but that's a, that's a responsibility that we take very seriously, you know. We don't want to tarnish the image or, you know, so--we, we, look at things like responsibility and, you know, who's doing good work and, and, whether the product is being well made and things like that before we, you know, present a new, um, a new player to the market.

HARVEY:  Um, a little change of pace, but, um, recently the Kentucky Distilleries Association formed an Advisory Committee on Diversity and, and, uh, Inclusivity. How do you see that having an effect on the bourbon world and the industry?

KIMBERL:  That's something, you know, again, that has been on everybody's minds for a very long time. It's something that's certainly been on my mind. That's something--it's something that I have pursued, you know, editorially for a very long time. Um, and it's something that's going to make the industry as a whole stronger. Uh, you know, we talk a lot about the perceptions versus reality. You know, the reality is that there have been women and people of color in this industry for a very long time. They just maybe weren't highlighted and celebrated like they should've been. Um, you know, I, I recently had the honor of speaking to a woman named Elmer Lucille Allen who was the first Black chemist ever hired by Brown-Forman and she was hired in the sixties, and I just learned about her like two months ago. Um, so that was--it, it's always really interesting, you know, if you can surprise me, then there's still work to be done, right? And so, uh, you know, that--there's a lot more in 01:08:00earnest seriousness about the, uh, importance of uncovering those stories, telling those stories, but then also, you know, creating the stories of tomorrow.

HARVEY:  Um,what are some other--what are some of the steps that the industry has taken to prioritize the--diversity and inclusion? And how does Bourbon Women hope to intervene positively in that area?

KIMBERL:  Absolutely, that's a great question. So one of the things that Bourbon Women did last summer in the wake of the tragedies with Breonna Taylor and George Floyd was, you know, one, say we support the Black Lives movement. But two, we also announced a diversity and inclusion initiative, and so that is something that I am tasked with bringing to fruition. And I have that whole program outlined. We are looking at, uh, you know, like a business school style cohort program where we have an application process and bring in, uh, 01:09:00women. And our goal is, you know, half and half white women and women of color, uh, because that supports really all aspects of, you know, what the Bourbon Women's Association is about. And we want to train them on skills that are going to give them greater opportunities within the industry, so--and it's, you know, our plan is to train women in different area--each cohort will be a different, um, topic. So we're looking at Stave and Thief certification first which really helps women in the restaurant and hospitality industry, which as you know is, is hurting right now. So you know, we want to, we want to use our resources where they will be most impactful, and that is what's going to be most impactful this year. And then, you know, down the line, we're looking at things like, uh, you know, distiller training and things like that at Moonshine University, and then, you know, spirits market training and, and so on and so 01:10:00forth. So just for the Bourbon Women's side of things, that's, that's how we are looking to help this industry is to train women and, you know, including women of color to go out in this industry and make their mark. Uh, within the broader industry, it's really just been a matter of, you know, talent acquisition and finding those people who can make a difference and who can make a positive difference and elevating them to a level where, you know, they're able to achieve their full potential. And I see that in so many different, uh, ways and in so many different companies right now because they're just saying, you know, "Gosh, we've been emphasizing, you know, these men for so long and, you know, we really haven't emphasized the work that our women are doing." And, you know, that work is just as important. And, you know, you have companies like Brown-Forman who have elevated two women, uh, to very high positions. 01:11:00Uh, Elizabeth McCall and Jackie Zykan are two of the highest-ranking women in the Kentucky bourbon industry. Um, but, you know, Brown-Forman also has an amazing track record with LGBTQ people and, uh, you know, Elmer Lucille Allen, who was the first Black chemist since the sixties, uh, you know. So they, they've had a really good track record of providing those stable jobs and, you know, high-ranking positions to a wide variety of people.

HARVEY:  Um, what role do you see many of the aficionado groups like the Bourbon Women and others like Whiskey Chicks, the Black Bourbon Society, and the Kentucky Black Bourbon Guild, like what role do they have in changing the industry and the consumership?

KIMBERL:  Yeah, I mean I think it's really each, each one of those groups has a different approach to bringing people to the table. And so, you 01:12:00know, if you think about bourbon as this, this whole, and before there was only like this one pie slice that was being paid attention to, then, you know, you have all these new pie slices coming in where people are entering from different vantage points and, uh, you know, different levels of inclusion and appreciation and all that sort of thing. So I, I really love and admire the work that all of these groups are doing. And then, you know, there, there are all kinds of other groups that people have probably not heard of. Pretty much anywhere you go you're going to have an enthusiast group near you. Uh, one of the ones that--I, I did the first story when they first formed was the British Bourbon Society. This was just a group of bourbon enthusiasts in, in London that would meet at a bar once a month. And, you know, they reached out to me on Twitter and we became friends. And since then it's grown to, you know, they have, you know, 01:13:00I think eight thousand, uh, followers now, and I have gone on barrel picks with them in Kentucky before. Uh, so, it's really cool to see, you know, that spark that inspires people to get involved and then how they run with it and, and grow that.

HARVEY:  That's really interesting that that grew so quickly--

KIMBERL:  --yeah--

HARVEY:  --over in London. Um, how do you see the work of Bourbon Women in relation to some of those other groups, like the Whiskey Chicks?

KIMBERL:  Um, so, Whiskey Chicks, I was also involved with for a very long time. Linda Ruffenach is the founder. She's a great friend of mine. I'm actually in her book. And I met one of my best friends at one of her events many, many years ago. Um, and that's a really great, a really great group because it's very, you know, laidback. They do a lot of fun stuff, you know. They do like, uh, pub crawls and, and all kinds of really neat fun stuff. Bourbon 01:14:00Women tends to be a little bit more, um, you know, formal, uh, which is nice because, it, you know, it's nice to have those, those different ways of approaching the, the enthusiast groups. Some people really want that sit-down fancy dinner and some people just want to go out and do a pub crawl with their friends. uh, then you get into like the, the Black Bourbon Society. Uh, Samara Davis, uh, I've known for several years. She's awesome. I'm a big fan of the work that she's doing. Um, and, you know, uh, that whole group was founded out of her frustration of the lack of understanding of Black consumers. And, um, you know, she's done a phenomenal job at, you know, pulling the industry in and saying, you know, it, it's not, you--Black consumers are not a monolith. It's not, you know, young urban people. It's, you know, people from all over, uh, with all kinds of, uh, you know--from all different levels of, um, 01:15:00you know, socioeconomic backgrounds and education levels and things like that. And so she's done a really phenomenal job of not just bringing in, uh, enthusiasts but also educating the, uh, the sector, the entire, uh, bourbon or distilled spirits sector about these consumers.

HARVEY:  Um, in the past year, uh, COVID has had a major impact all around the world. Um, what has been the impact on the bourbon industry within the production and within the distilleries?

KIMBERL:  Um, one of the most interesting things is that, uh, you know, the, the Kentucky Distillers Association went to the governor like right off the bat and said, you know, "Don't shut us down. We will make sure that our people are safe." And so a lot of the distilleries shut down tours so they were not bringing in, you know, the, the, that constant stream of outside 01:16:00people because they really wanted to protect their people so that they could protect their ability to, you know, maintain those jobs and keep production going. And so, uh, like we saw a lot of distilleries shut down to visitors or, uh, you know, severely curtail visitor experiences because they wanted to protect their employee base so that they could keep the distillery running. Um, so, you know, the--it's, it's very complicated to say what was caused by what because, you know, we also had tariffs in the, in the EU that have been just decimating the smaller distilleries. Um, so the spirits industry as a whole in the United States has suffered for a number of reasons. Um, a lot of the distilleries were able to pivot and make hand sanitizer for a while to, you know, keep cash flow going. Uh, but a lot of the distilleries had been looking at expanding to European markets, and that was just completely shut 01:17:00off for them, you know, pretty much right at the beginning of the pandemic, so they got hit with a double whammy. A lot of the larger distilleries have been doing really well, but again, that global market has really contracted and that has hurt even the biggest players. Um, but, you know, we know from history that the distilled spirits industry has been through challenging times before and they will get through it.

HARVEY:  Um, I've read a bunch about, um--they're expecting a big like economic rebound, big boost after the pandemic, they've seen it through other pandemics. Um, are they expecting that to help within the, uh, within the bourbon industry? Are they expecting to see a boost too once the pandemic comes to a close?

KIMBERL:  You know, I, I can't say what other people are expecting, but what I would expect is that--and what I'm seeing really is that people are ready to get back to, you know, having hobbies. And, you know, first, people are 01:18:00going to go visit their, their friends and relatives, but then immediately after that they're going to be looking for something fun to do, so it just makes sense. A lot of people are saying, you know, it's going to be the roaring twenties but, you know, just with a delayed reaction. (laughs) And I think that's really going to absolutely be the case. I think that there are a lot of people who are going to be ready to get back to the bars, have a drink with their friends, celebrate, you know, ready to get back to those distillery tours and in, in full force, and like really get down to the nitty-gritty and, and see the production side of things. And, uh, you know, because a lot--most distillery tours right now are not going into the production side because, you know, again, they're protecting those employees. So I think a lot of people are going to go see their friends and family first, but then they're going to be ready to have a fun time.

HARVEY:  Um, how has the pandemic impacted the writing and production of the American Whiskey Magazine and the Whisky Magazine?

KIMBERL:  Uh, we are actually stronger than we've ever been. You know, with the pandemic people have become voracious readers, uh, which has helped us tremendously. Uh, you know, the readership on the website has gone up, but also, you know, the readership of our print magazines. And, uh, subscriptions for print magazines have gone up, which is surprising, but not really because, like, what else are you going to do but sit at home and read and dream. (laughs)

HARVEY:  Has it been more difficult to find stories to put in the magazine? Or--

KIMBERL:  Never. I've never ever had a problem, like I never run out of things to talk about. You know, I, I maintain pretty close relationships with the people in the industry. So when things are happening, you know, I'm hearing what people are doing and how they're reacting and, and, what, what they're planning on doing next. And, you know, it just constantly sparks, you know, this imagination of what that could lead to and gives me all kinds of 01:20:00ideas all the time. And, uh, you know, uh, a lot of the writers that I know are in the same boat where, you know, they're saying, you know, "We have all these great stories to tell." I thought it was going to be difficult at the beginning of the pandemic to continue to tell stories because I got a lot of my inspiration from traveling. Um, in 2019, I was on the road one week out of every month and that continued into January of 2020 when I went to Portland to visit Westward Distillery. And then, you know, when that shut down, I was like, well, where am I going to meet new bartenders or learn new cocktails or, you know, learn about new products? But then a lot of the distilleries, distilleries pivoted and continued to do, uh, you know, these Zoom meetings and, you know, virtual events and things like that. And so, they were coming up with some really interesting things. Like, uh, Cooper's Craft did, um, a cocktail and cookie painting party for, uh, the holidays, which was really fun. 01:21:00You know, we just sat there and painted our cookies and sipped our cocktails and talked about the, the brand and what was coming next and, you know. So, I, I really appreciate all the work that the brands put into, uh, keeping us all connected because it made it a lot easier to come up with, uh, new story ideas. And I also got creative and I started, um, learning more about kosher cocktails. So I had learned about kosher whiskey, um, you know, probably a year or two before the pandemic. And then, um, you know, a Jewish congregation approached me and said, "Hey, would you like to do a program about kosher whiskey and kosher cocktails after our Habdalah ceremony, uh, you know, on Saturday night?" And I said, "Well yeah, I would love to." And so that gave me an opportunity to kind of dig deeper into, uh, kosher whiskey and kosher cocktails. And I was able to actually, like, do a kosher cocktail demonstration and then, uh, talk to this, uh, congregation about the Jewish history of Kentucky bourbon.

HARVEY:  Uh, that's really--very interesting. Um--

KIMBERL:  --um-hm.

HARVEY:  What has your experience been balancing the, uh, stay-at-home mom, working with, uh, you know, your children through the pandemic, and being a content editor and the president of, uh, Bourbon Women?

KIMBERL:  You kind of have to let things go, you know. Uh, you have to, uh--I, I've been talking to my kids a lot about this throughout the pandemic. Um, everybody is in the same boat, and if--you know, you can't feel like you're behind because everybody's behind. And so there are a couple of, uh, sayings that we live by. One is that old Winston Churchill saying, "If you're going through hell, keep going." Uh, and we talk about that all the time, "Yeah, I understand that you're really frustrated with your virtual school right now, but if you don't finish it then you're going to have to do it later. So 01:23:00how about if, you know, just get through it." And then other one is, "Embrace the suck," you know. And we knew early on in the pandemic that things were going to be difficult, that the economy was going to crash, and that, you know, people were going to lose jobs and, and all kinds of bad things were going to happen, uh, but you just have to get through it. And so, uh, you know, it's, it's been really just a matter of managing expectations and offering a lot of grace. Because you know, I, I am very clear with my kids that I don't expect you to have a stellar school year. I expect you to hate this--(laughs)--but you are very fortunate to have an opportunity to continue to learn throughout the pandemic because of the technology that we have available to us now. And so, uh, you know, it's, it's been difficult but I feel like we're all handling it pretty well.

HARVEY:  Um, I have a few wrap-up questions for you, just--

KIMBERL:  Yeah.

HARVEY:  What's your favorite bourbon?

KIMBERL:  Whatever you're buying. (both laugh)

HARVEY:  And how do you like to drink it?

KIMBERL:  Usually neat, uh, or in a cocktail. But again, however you serve it, I'm not complaining.

HARVEY:  Um, in your opinion, what makes a good bourbon?

KIMBERL:  Oh, passion. I mean I think that whoever is making it has to be passionate about being in the industry, uh, you know. And we definitely have that from, you know--if you look at the, the legacy distillers here in Kentucky, those distilleries that made it through, um, you know, prohibition or made it through World War II or made it through, uh, the downturn of the bourbon economy in the seventies and eighties, uh, they stuck with it because of passion. The newer craft distilleries, if they get into it for the right reasons and they have that passion, then they're going to make a good product.

HARVEY:  Um, what bourbon would you recommend for someone who says 01:25:00they don't like bourbon?

KIMBERL:  I mean I would want to know what they do like. So if you like scotch, I would probably recommend Four Roses. If you like wine, I would probably recommend something that is finished in a wine barrel. If you like rum, I would probably recommend something that is finished in a rum barrel.

HARVEY:  Um, what advice would you give to students trying to enter the bourbon industry?

KIMBERL:  Um, just look for any opportunities you can, um, as far as, uh, internships. You know, I, I was not able to do any internships when I was in college. I actually had my first internship in my thirties because that was when I got to it and I was able to do it. But if you have the opportunity, uh, look for internships, look for volunteer experiences. Um, you know, if you have a particular distillery that you're interested in, learn everything that you can about that distillery and, you know, call them up or, or email them and say, you know, "I'm really interested in your distillery. Can I do an 01:26:00internship?" And a lot of distilleries will create an internship for you if they feel that it's the right opportunity. Um, so just really get to know, uh, you know, the history and get to know the brands, and figure out what you are most interested in and go for what interests you.

HARVEY:  Um, I know you said currently Bourbon Women Association is rapidly expanding. Um, how do you see that trend moving in the next five to ten years?

KIMBERL:  I think we're going to continue to grow because, you know, we've been around a decade now. We know what we're doing, we've established our, uh, reputation in the industry and, you know, throughout the, uh, consumer groups. We're very well respected by the brands. And you know, the women who join our ranks have a phenomenal time, you know. They, they always enjoy the programs that we put on and, you know, the camaraderie that we have within our 01:27:00ranks. And so, you--like, I think that the sky is the limit. I think we're going to continue to grow into the next decade.

HARVEY:  And, uh, what type of expansion are you expecting or, um, are you planning for in the next five to ten years with the American Whiskey Magazine?

KIMBERL:  American Whiskey Magazine is doing phenomenally well. You know, it was kind of an experiment when it was launched. Uh, you know, Damian, who is the publisher for Paragraph, the entire Paragraph Publishing organization, really saw an opportunity. Uh, you know, Whisky Magazine had really been focused on scotch for a long time. And then there was a little bit of, you know, yes, there's also Canadian whiskey and yes, there's also American whiskey. But then he saw the dynamic growth that was taking place in the American whiskey industry and realized, you know, there's, there's a real opportunity here.

HARVEY:  Um, what do you see, uh, the growth in the bourbon industry in, in the next five years, and what are important trends that we should be 01:28:00paying attention to?

KIMBERL:  Uh, well, not just within the bourbon industry, within the distilled spirits industry as a whole, uh, American single malt is a huge category that's growing leaps and bounds right now. Uh, that's one of the things that the smaller craft distilleries are doing to kind of distinguish themselves from the Kentucky bourbon industry, is saying, you know, "We can do whiskey also. But it can be a little bit different and we can put our own stamp on it." And so we're seeing a lot of--not just in American single malts, but in ryes and even in bourbons, we're seeing a lot of regional and philosophical, uh, takes on different types of whiskey throughout the United States.

HARVEY:  Um, what aspirations do you wish will become reality within this next generation entering the industry?

KIMBERL:  I really hope that people will--you know, there, there's a really great saying that Buffalo Trace has, "Honor history, embrace change." 01:29:00And I really hope that people who are entering the industry right now will take the time to understand and honor that history as they are moving toward embracing whatever change is inevitable.

HARVEY:  Uh, is there anything else you'd like to add or make sure is on the record?

KIMBERL:  I have been absolutely unbelievably fortunate to be able to do what I, what I have done in my career. And I have enjoyed it so much, and I have so many people to thank for it, I can't even begin to thank them all. Uh, and I just want people to know that I love what I do. Every day of my life is a fantasy camp. And also, you know, I do what I do for my kids so that they will have a future here.

HARVEY:  Thank you so much for talking with me today.

KIMBERL:  Thanks, Alex. It's been great.

[End of interview.]