Interview with Florence "Kiki" McCarthy, June 16, 2021

Partial Transcript: This is Evelyn Ganzglass. I was a Peace Corps Volunteer in Somalia from 1966 to 1968. And today, um, June 16, 2021, I'm interviewing Florence McCarthy who was a Peace Corps Volunteer in East Pakistan, uh, now Bangladesh, from 1961 to 1963. And she served in a rural women's development program.

Segment Synopsis: McCarthy majored in history and political science at the University of California, Berkeley. McCarthy saw joining the Peace Corps as a way for her to travel overseas. Accordingly, McCarthy went and took the entrance test.

Keywords: College majors; Examinations; Exams; History; Interests; John F. Kennedy; Oakland (Calif.); Traveling; Undergraduate education; University of California, Berkeley

Subjects: Bangladesh; East Pakistan; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--1960-1970; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Bangladesh; Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Pakistan; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Pakistan; Political science; Universities and colleges; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Alright. So, you took the exam. Clearly, you passed. Um, had you said anything about where you wanted to go?

Segment Synopsis: McCarthy was willing to serve anywhere. McCarthy was glad to be posted to East Pakistan.

Keywords: Applications; Applying

Subjects: Asia; Bangladesh; East Pakistan; Emotions; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Bangladesh; Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Pakistan; Turkey; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Le-let me ask you, what did your family think about you going into the Peace Corps?

Segment Synopsis: McCarthy's family members were not totally surprised with her actions but were anxious as the Peace Corps was new and they were not familiar with East Pakistan. McCarthy came from a rural area of California so the government background checks on her caused some concern among the local people. McCarthy's friends accepted her decision.

Keywords: Anxiety; Background checks; California; Choices; Family; Friends; Local people; Locals; Rural areas; Uncertainty

Subjects: Bangladesh; East Pakistan; Emotions; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Bangladesh; Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Pakistan; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: You were accepted. And then, um, how long did it take for you to actually go into training?

Segment Synopsis: McCarthy was in the first cohort sent to Asia. McCarthy's pre-service training was at Putney, Vermont and run by the Experiment in International Living. McCarthy describes some of the training - part of which, in retrospect, turned out to be extraneous. There were 29 trainees in McCarthy's cohort. They were from diverse vocational backgrounds, various geographic locations, and a wide range of ages. One of the trainees was de-selected. At the end of pre-service training, the Volunteers had a short break which gave them the opportunity to return home. Pre-service training lasted 2 months. Overall, McCarthy found it useful, especially since few people in the cohort had traveled much.

Keywords: Acclimation; Age ranges; Berkeley (Calif.); California; Cohorts; Cultural differences; Cultural training; Decisions; Dhaka (East Pakistan); Differences; Diversity in the Peace Corps; Experiment in International Living; History; Invitations; Language training; Leaving; Lectures; Nebraska; Peace Corps directors; Preparation; Putney (Vt.); Rajshahi (East Pakistan); Rural areas; Sargent Shriver; St. Louis (Mo.); Traveling; Vermont; Waiting periods

Subjects: Asia; Bangladesh; East Pakistan; Europe; India; International travel; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Bangladesh; Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Pakistan; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Pakistan; Voluntarism; Volunteers; West Pakistan

Partial Transcript: Can you talk about your--was anything memorable about the trip over or your arrival in East Pakistan?

Segment Synopsis: McCarthy's cohort flew indirectly from New York to East Pakistan. They were greeted at the airport by a group of expatriates. Initially, the Volunteers stayed at the homes of the American consular staff before being switched to home stays with local families. The Volunteers remained in Dhaka for several more weeks of orientation.

Keywords: Acclimation; Airports; Dhaka (East Pakistan); Distance; Host families; Language training; New York City (N.Y.); Orientation; Traveling

Subjects: Acculturation; Bangladesh; East Pakistan; India; International travel; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Bangladesh; Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Pakistan; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Pakistan; Voluntarism; Volunteers; West Pakistan

Partial Transcript: So, what was your impression when you got off the plane?

Segment Synopsis: When de-planing, McCarthy wasn't sure what to expect. McCarthy recalls the heat and humidity. McCarthy's host father was the provincial Secretary of Agriculture. McCarthy describes her host family and living situation in Dhaka.

Keywords: Acculturation; Activities; Bengali (Language); Dhaka (East Pakistan); History; Host family; Language training; Living situation; Traveling; Uncertainty

Subjects: Bangladesh; India; Language and languages; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Bangladesh; Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Pakistan; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Pakistan; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: So, tell me about your assignment. What--where were you assigned and what--to do what?

Segment Synopsis: McCarthy was one of eight Volunteers attached to the Pakistan Academy for Rural Development. They were sent to the city of Comilla. The purpose of the Academy was to develop prototype programs to help small farmers and their families. McCarthy describes the background of the Academy and of the other 7 Volunteers in her group. McCarthy was specifically assigned to work with programs for women. The Academy director's concept was to develop cooperative, sustainable projects to improve agricultural production and the families' lives. Initially, McCarthy's work involved visiting surrounding villages to gauge interest among the women for attending training classes at the Academy. McCarthy and the people at the Academy surprisingly found that the village men only very grudgingly considered the possibility of education for women.

Keywords: Attitudes; Children; Comilla (Bangladesh); Comilla (East Pakistan); History; Language barriers; Local people; Locals; Male-dominated society; Michigan State University; Pakistan Academy for Rural Development; Site mates; Support systems; Training centers; Traveling; Treatment of women; Villages; Women

Subjects: Bangladesh; East Pakistan; Education; Gender roles; India; Manners and customs; Pakistan; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Bangladesh; Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Pakistan; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Pakistan; Religion; Retirement; Rural areas; Sex discrimination; Social norms; United States. Agency for International Development; Universities and colleges; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: So, we drove only to, um, cooperative villages where some kind of progress had already been made about trying to get people to think about doing things differently.

Segment Synopsis: On her visits to the villages, McCarthy was accompanied by 2 other people from the Academy. McCarthy describes the personnel at the Academy. McCarthy describes the fear and shock that her first appearance caused among the women of the villages. Eventually, the Academy team was able to identify health as the main concern of the women. McCarthy describes how the women were introduced to the training center and how classes were started. McCarthy describes the classes they began which were related to women's activities. McCarthy depicts the physical layout of the Academy. Women came to the training center once a week and then returned to their villages and shared the practical lessons they had learned. Previously, rural women rarely even left their village.

Keywords: Activities; Changes; Confidence; Cooperation; Counterparts; Decisions; Education programs; Health training; Healthcare; Interests; Leaving; Local people; Locals; Male-dominated society; Michigan State University; Orientation; Out of place; Pakistan Academy for Rural Development; Professors; Questions; Returning; Second Goal; Traveling; Treatment of women; Villages

Subjects: Acculturation; Bangladesh; Education; Emotions; Fears; Finance; Gender roles; Manners and customs; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Bangladesh; Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Pakistan; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Pakistan; Research; Scared; Sex discrimination; Social norms; Universities and colleges; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: How did the husbands react after a while?

Segment Synopsis: McCarthy describes ways that the women's programs at the Academy improved the lifestyles of the local people and gradually gained increased support from the men in the communities. The success of the programs surpassed the initial expectations and the program was replicated in other regions on a national level. At the end of McCarthy's service, someone was hired to take her place. On her own, using her limited living allowance, McCarthy made some interest-free loans to some of the women. McCarthy believes this was also generally successful.

Keywords: Advantages; Animal husbandry; Changes; Comilla (Bangladesh); Comilla (East Pakistan); Contributions; Expectations; Food culture; Illness; Kids; Language barriers; Male-dominated society; Pakistan Academy for Rural Development; Sickness; Sustainability; Vaccinations; Women

Subjects: Bangladesh; Education; Finance; Health; Hygiene; Lifestyles; Local people; Locals; Manners and culture; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Bangladesh; Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Pakistan; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Pakistan; Transportation; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: There was nothing these women couldn't learn. They became literate.

Segment Synopsis: The Academy classes for women expanded to literacy and to producing simple educational materials for them. In 1965, McCarthy returned to Comilla to do research for her master's degree. When Bangladesh gained independence in 1971, McCarthy accepted an invitation to come to Dhaka to help sent up a research component for a nationwide women's development program.

Keywords: Adaptation; Changes; Comilla (Bangladesh); Comilla (East Pakistan); Conversations; Dhaka (Bangladesh); Dhaka (East Pakistan); Education programs; Excited; History; Impact; Independence; Interviews; Master's degrees; Michigan State University; Pakistan Academy for Rural Development; Questions; Returning; University of Connecticut

Subjects: Bangladesh; East Pakistan; Education; Emotions; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Bangladesh; Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Pakistan; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Pakistan; Research; Universities and colleges; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Y-you've talked a lot about your work and the impact it, it's had, which is very, very impressive. But, what, what--did you have fun? Did you--what was life like there?

Segment Synopsis: McCarthy shared housing with another female Volunteer in Comilla. McCarty and her roommate would bike to the Academy and often have lunch with the 6 male Volunteers who were housed on the grounds of the training center. The Peace Corps provided a supply of leisure reading materials to the Volunteers. Overall, McCarthy found daily life novel and fun. The Volunteers would gather in Dhaka for a Christmas party.

Keywords: Amenities; Books; Challenges; Comilla (Bangladesh); Comilla (East Pakistan); Dhaka (Bangladesh); Dhaka (East Pakistan); Holidays; Housing; Living situation; Roommates; Safety; Site mates; Traveling

Subjects: Bangladesh; Health; Interpersonal relations; Lifestyles; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Bangladesh; Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Pakistan; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Pakistan; Recreation; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Did you, did you interact a lot with the, the other faculty, the other Academy staff?

Segment Synopsis: The Academy faculty had weekly meetings. The staff members were traveling, busy, and had little time to socialize with each other outside of work.

Keywords: Interpersonal relations; Lifestyles; New York; Relationships

Subjects: Bangladesh; Intercultural communication; Lifestyles; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Bangladesh; Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Pakistan; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Pakistan; Recreation; Travel; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Did, did you travel throughout the country?

Segment Synopsis: McCarthy only took a couple trips for leisure while in-country. The transportation system made travel difficult.

Keywords: Comilla (East Pakistan); Dhaka (East Pakistan); Difficult; Distance; Recreation; Transportation

Subjects: Bangladesh; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Bangladesh; Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Pakistan; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Pakistan; Travel; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Did you, did you think about re-upping or had you had it after two years?

Segment Synopsis: Near the end of her Peace Corps service, McCarthy decided to attend graduate school at Michigan State University to study sociology and anthropology. Eventually, McCarthy became head of the women's section of the Ministry of Agriculture in Bangladesh for 4 years. McCarthy describes her responsibilities working for the Ministry.

Keywords: Animal husbandry; Challenges; Changes; Choices; College majors; Comilla (Bangladesh); Comilla (East Pakistan); Encouragement; Gender roles; Graduate schools; Interests; Michigan State University; Politics and government; Poverty; Returning; Stereotypes; Support; Training; Traveling; University of California, Berkeley; Women

Subjects: Bangladesh; Finance; International travel; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Bangladesh; Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Pakistan; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Pakistan; Research; Universities and colleges; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: I usually end interviews by asking about the three goals of Peace Corps and how your experience addresses that.

Segment Synopsis: McCarthy views herself as having been a catalyst to bring about improvement in the lifestyles of the local, impoverished, rural people. McCarthy first listened to discover what the local people needed and wanted and then helped to bring about those changes. McCarthy describes how her Peace Corps service had a lifelong impact on her.

Keywords: Acceptance; Accomplishments; Attitudes; Changes; Cultural exchange; Donald Trump; First Goal; Friends; Impact; Improvements; Language barriers; Local people; Locals; Personal growth; Relationships; Returning; Second Goal; Sustainability; Third Goal; Traveling; Undergraduate education; Women

Subjects: Asia; Bangladesh; East Pakistan; International travel; Interpersonal relations; Lifestyles; Norway; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Bangladesh; Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Pakistan; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Pakistan; Scandinavia; Universities and colleges; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: So I am out of questions.

Segment Synopsis: McCarthy describes the first time the women from the villages came to the training center and the disbelief expressed by the local men in the neighborhood.

Keywords: Changes; Pakistan Academy for Rural Development; Training centers; Transportation; Traveling; Women

Subjects: Bangladesh; Education; Gender roles; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Bangladesh; Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Pakistan; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Pakistan; Sex discrimination; Social norms; Voluntarism; Volunteers