Interview with Paul Elie, December 14, 2005

Partial Transcript: Um, one of the themes of your book is Merton as a pilgrim, uh, describe him as a pilgrim, what was he searching for, and did he ever find peace

Segment Synopsis: Elie thinks of Merton as a pilgrim because his search for God was intertwined with a yearning for a place where he could feel at home. Elie uses the Augustinian quote "my heart is restless until it rests in you" to describe how Merton found peace. He describes Merton's intensity of search for a fully lived life, including whether he knew God, his interest in communism at Columbia University and how finding the monastery satisfied an intellectual curiosity that communism did not.

Keywords: Augustines; Augustinians; Catholic monks; Columbia University; Communism; Contemplative prayer; Contemplatives; Monasteries; Orphans; Prayer; The Seven Storey Mountain (Thomas Merton); Trappist monasteries; Trappist monks; Writers; Writing

Subjects: Catholic church; Catholics; Christian teachers.; Christianity.; Church and education.; Church.; Communism; Merton, Thomas, 1915-1968.; Religion.; Trappists

Partial Transcript: Why was the Seven Storey Mountain a bestseller? And factor into your answer your own experience as an editor and working in the publishing business so the viewer knows "oh, okay, well, this guys know where he speaks"

Segment Synopsis: Elie discusses how and why The Seven Storey Mountain became a bestseller. He says Merton converting to Catholicism gave him a certain sort of authority with both Catholics and those outside of the Church. Elie compares the status of the book to Angela's Ashes, and Merton's sudden fame to McCourt. He says another part of the appeal was that Merton was providing a glimpse into the hidden world of the monastery.

Keywords: Angela's Ashes; Brideshead Revisited; Catholic monks; Catholicism; Evelyn Waugh; Frank McCourt; Second World War; The Seven Storey Mountain (Thomas Merton); Trappist monasteries; Trappist monks; World War 2; World War Two

Subjects: Catholic church; Catholic literature; Catholics; Christian teachers.; Christianity.; Church and education.; Church.; Merton, Thomas, 1915-1968.; Monks; Religion.; Trappists; World War II

Partial Transcript: To Merton, or to his monastery--

Segment Synopsis: Merton was asked to write books that would raise money and raise the profile of the monastery. Elie sees Merton's writing as one long letter to the world and the strengths of this type of writing are its spontaneity and vigor, and that Merton's detachment from perfectionism helps give authenticity and honesty to the writing. Elie does think that Merton's vast quantity of writing is uneven in quality, but that the value also lies in its chronicle of Merton's life.

Keywords: Catholic monks; Catholicism; Fundraising; Journals; Novices; Postulants; Trappist monasteries; Trappist monks

Subjects: Catholic church; Catholics; Celebrities; Christian teachers.; Christianity.; Church and education.; Church.; Diaries; Letters; Merton, Thomas, 1915-1968.; Monasteries; Monks; Religion.; Trappists

Partial Transcript: We haven't discussed this, but it, it's crossed my mind, um, in your trade you all deal with, with authors who are notoriously uneven; are there any good, uh, war stories from your shop about dealing with Merton as an author; was he a tough author to deal with?

Segment Synopsis: Elie says one of the challenges with Merton is that he promised books to multiple different publishers at the same time. Elie describes Merton as a real communicator with his writing in that he always needed a response and honest criticism. He mentions that Czeslaw Milosz gave Merton some of the best criticism he received. He states that Merton was the best known Catholic writer in America during his life.

Keywords: Authors; Catholic monks; Catholicism; Czesław Miłosz; Devotionals; Evelyn Waugh; James Laughlin; Literary criticism; Naomi Burton Stone; Poetry; Publishing business; Publishing industry; Religious writing; Robert Giroux; Spiritual writing; The Seven Storey Mountain (Thomas Merton); Trappist monasteries; Trappist monks; Writers; Writing

Subjects: Catholic church; Catholics; Christian teachers.; Christianity.; Master and servant.; Merton, Thomas, 1915-1968.; Religion; Trappists

Partial Transcript: And, he was this little pious icon of that time and then within five, six, seven years suddenly he was being perceived in a new way, so, in a way that unsettled quite a few traditional conservative Catholics, um, talk about that transition, uh, wh, what was this new public persona and how did, uh, how did that sit with people?

Segment Synopsis: Elie states that many of Merton's views never changed, but these social justice opinions became more pointed as the Vietnam War and Civil Rights Movement took off, which concerned the more conservative Catholics. Elie claims that, for Merton, activism was a part of his life of contemplation. He says Merton suggested to Berrigan that not enough contemplation was being undertaken before action was being done. Elie discusses Merton's moderate stance on nonviolence.

Keywords: Anti-war movement; Antiwar movement; Catholic peace movement; Catholics for Peace; Contemplation in a world of action (Thomas Merton); Death; Dorothy Day; Pacifists; Vietnam War

Subjects: Christian teachers.; Christianity.; Church and education.; Church.; Civil rights movement; Hermitages; Hermits; Master and servant.; Merton, Thomas, 1915-1968.; Nonviolence; Pacifism; Peace; Peace movements; Religion.; Vietnam War, 1961-1975; Violence

Partial Transcript: Um, I'm going to skip to another subject, the one, uh, you know, prob--probably the blockbuster of the past twenty years of Merton studies, anyway, was his relationship with M, um, was this, was this simply something that the reader should see as well, that's titillating, very nice, uh, let's move on or, or is it something substantial of substance in Merton's life and development as a person?

Segment Synopsis: Elie describes Merton's romantic relationship as a major event in his life, that it helped him existentially both to understand whether he could love and be loved and to test his vows as a monk. Elie thinks the central reason Merton wrote about his negative traits and experiences is that he just wrote about everything that happened to him as a matter of course.

Keywords: Abstinence; Catholic monks; Catholicism; Partners; Romantic relationships; Sex; Thought experiments; Trappist monasteries

Subjects: Catholic Church; Catholics; Celibacy; Christian teachers.; Christianity.; Church.; Merton, Thomas, 1915-1968.; Monasteries; Religion.; Religious; Trappists; Vows

Partial Transcript: Merton's tensions with his abbot, uh, were they good, bad, or just simply to be expected any time you have authority and somebody subject to that authority

Segment Synopsis: Elie says the restrictions of the monastery helped set Merton free, and that Merton's death allowed people to project their own image of him onto him. Elie discusses some of the issues that happened after Merton's death that he thinks Merton could have contributed to, including specific issues within the church as well as the fall of communism.

Keywords: Catholic monks; Catholicism; Ecumenism; Freeform liturgies; Interfaith dialogue; Interreligious dialogue; Pope John Paul II; Sexism and Catholicism; Sexism and religion; Sexism and the church; Trappist monasteries; Trappist monks

Subjects: Catholic church; Catholics; Central America; Christian teachers.; Christianity.; Church and education.; Church.; Communism; Liberation theology; Merton, Thomas, 1915-1968.; Priesthood; Priests; Religion.; Trappists

Partial Transcript: And as sort of closing, a closing thought, what is his leg, his, his legacy in your mind?

Segment Synopsis: Elie doesn't doubt that Merton will continue to matter as long as people keep reading his work. He thinks that Merton shows us that religious commitment is a commitment for life and there are no easy answers. Merton reminds us we're supposed to take life seriously. Merton thought Dorothy Day was living as he should be and she thought he was living as she should be.

Keywords: Catholic monks; Catholicism; Communication; Correspondence; Dorothy Day; Interpersonal communication; Interpersonal relations; Letters; Social interaction; Trappist monasteries; Trappist monks

Subjects: Catholic church; Catholics; Christian teachers.; Christianity.; Church and education.; Church.; Merton, Thomas, 1915-1968.; Monks; Religion.; Trappists