00:00:00PFEIFFER: Perfect. So, just to start off, this is Samantha Pfeiffer
interviewing Bram. Um, just to start off, I'm going to ask you to tell me a
little bit about yourself.
GRAY: Okay. So, my name is Bram Gray. Um, I'm currently a, um, sophomore in
college, going for a health studies degree, um, to hopefully get a Master's in
Public Health to work in epidemiology.
PFEIFFER: Very cool. What made you want to choose that degree?
GRAY: Um, it's--I just kind of--my parents are both--one of them is a social
worker, and the other one is a pharmaceutical manager--(laughs)--so I've just
grown up with like healthcare and stuff, and I always found it very fascinating,
and, um, especially with COVID, I was--I was really interested in the sort of
diseases and stuff, and I--I kind of hyperfixated on it, and so that's kind of
what I wanted to do.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so, obviously, today, we're talking about COVID--
00:01:00
GRAY: --yes--
PFEIFFER: --and we're jumping right in there. Would you say that the experiences
you had during COVID like shaped that career path that you wanted to have?
GRAY: Yes. Originally, I thought about, I was going to do nursing and then
obviously--(laughs)--changed directions very drastically.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. How would you say that changed like during that time?
GRAY: Um, it changed because, one, I was seeing like with all the nursing
shortages and how that was affecting them and being on the frontlines and all
that risk, and I didn't really want to put myself there, being someone that is,
um, has some disabilities that make my exposure to COVID or other illnesses
really scary. And I also really like research, so I changed gears towards epidemiology.
PFEIFFER: Got you. Got you. Um, so, you mentioned having some physical factors--
GRAY: --um-hm--
PFEIFFER: --that might make you more worried about COVID.
00:02:00
GRAY: Um-hm.
PFEIFFER: When that news first started to come out, and we're hearing there is
this disease; it's coming, how did you feel initially?
GRAY: When I first saw it, I was--I was like, "Okay, it's not that big of a
deal," and then it kept getting bigger, and it got--then I started to get really
concerned and scared about it, until eventually, you know, everything shut down.
I was terrified. So.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Yeah. So, a lot of anxiety at that time?
GRAY: Yeah.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Could you be a little bit more specific? What was it about it
that scared you?
GRAY: Um, what scared me about it was, A, there wasn't a bunch known about it,
and then there wasn't any--there wasn't a vaccine yet. There wasn't any really
good, viable methods to treat it, and everyone in my house is immunocompromised
in some capacity, so that was very scary in that way, and, um, so there was just
a lot of unknowns. Plus, the fact that all of my family's at a higher
00:03:00risk made it really, really scary and made me very anxious about it in general.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. How did you and your family respond when that news started to
come out?
GRAY: Um, well, we immediately started, like when people started first masking
and stuff, we were--we started doing that. Um, we stopped going to as many
social events, kind of started isolating ourselves before we were forced to
quarantine anyway.
PFEIFFER: Sure. Sure. Was that--how was that experience, starting some of those
practices before you other--saw other people doing so?
GRAY: Um, it was interesting because people kind of thought we were a little
nuts for being that cautious about it, um, and obviously we ended up being
right--(laughs)--for being cautious about it. But they're like, "Why are you
doing all of that?" And it's like, we don't know much about this, and it's
better to be safe and cautious than to be blindsided by it.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. So, at the time that things--news first started to
00:04:00come out, were you working at the time, or you were in school?
GRAY: I was a sophomore in high school, um, near the end of my sophomore year
when the news started circulating about COVID.
PFEIFFER: Got you. So, with your family putting in some of these precautions a
little bit early, how did that affect your experience at school?
GRAY: It affected my experience at school because people definitely thought I
was very weird for wearing a mask at the beginning, and then more people started
to wear it, and eventually we went to virtual, so it didn't become as big of an
issue. But at first, it was very awkward with wearing a mask and people being
like, "Why are you doing that?"
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Yeah, I would love to talk more about your experiences with
school because that's definitely a unique perspective--
GRAY: --yeah--
PFEIFFER: --of being in high school at the time when all this was happening.
GRAY: Um-hm.
PFEIFFER: How was that transition period of finding out about COVID happening,
schools starting to talk about going online? What were your thoughts
00:05:00during that time?
GRAY: It was really sudden because I live in like royal--rural Western Kentucky,
so like it wasn't really a big deal to them as much, so when they really started
to talk about it and like think about putting policies into place, it was a very
quick slide into shutting down the schools. It was very kind of abrupt and a
hard transition from going all--you know, being in-person for so many years with
school to being all virtual, and, um, we were like three-fourths through the
school year, so then suddenly all of the curriculum had to change for virtual,
which made it very difficult. And then teachers didn't know how much homework
was too much or how much work was too little, so then some classes, I was doing
like hours of work for virtual, and then some, I was barely doing anything, and
it was a very awkward, weird situation to find myself in.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Yeah, wow. (laughs) That had to be quite the
00:06:00experience. Um, when the news was first coming out, would you say there were a
lot of like rumors going around school about things shutting down, or was it
just, "Hey, we're shutting down today."
GRAY: Um, it was definitely--it was maybe a week before they--when they--before
shutdown, rumors started spreading, so it--it--there was not much of a gap at
all between rumors and them actually shutting down the school, because they were
very tightlipped about it--
PFEIFFER: --sure--
GRAY: --and didn't really want it to get out.
PFEIFFER: Yeah, what were those conversations with your friends or classmates
like though, when those rumors did start to spread?
GRAY: It was--we were--a lot of us were very skeptical that they were actually
going to shut down school, because there wasn't a lot of COVID cases yet. Where
we lived, it was very--still very sparse, so everyone's like, "Yeah, okay," but
like no one really believed that they were actually going to shut down school
until they did. And then I think everyone really started to realize
00:07:00that COVID was actually serious, and so people then started to panic more about
it than they had--
PFEIFFER: --sure--
GRAY: --previously.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Were you glad to hear the news that school was going online?
GRAY: I had mixed feelings about it because I--I personally have ADHD, so doing
virtual is really hard because I don't have like a routine or structure to keep
me focused and keep my attention on school. But I was also relieved because it
meant we were isolating, and there was less risk of getting COVID.
PFEIFFER: Yeah, definitely understand the mixed feelings there. Um, so, you
mentioned there being a lot of variety in how your teachers handled classwork.
Um, what would you say that you found enjoyable about the online classes, or
what worked for you?
GRAY: I found it enjoyable because, um, in the way that I could--like, I didn't
honestly pay attention to the classes a lot. I just did it on my own
00:08:00and did all the work--(laughs)--while the Zooms were happening, so it made it
much easier for me because I got to work at my own pace, compared to in the
classroom. But also, conversely, it made it a lot harder to get that support
from teachers if I was struggling with the material.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and you mentioned having ADHD as well. Would you say
that there were some things that actually were easier with doing it online, or
was it all more difficult?
GRAY: Some things were easier because there was less distractions from people
around me, but also I was a distraction to myself because I didn't have anyone
to really enforce that structure for me, which was a very difficult transition
to figure out how to get myself to have that structured routine for school on my
own at home versus always having that structure set for me by the school.
PFEIFFER: Sure. Did you receive any sort of support with how to handle online
school?
00:09:00
GRAY: Not really, no. It was very much kind of a free-for-all because at first,
the--they thought it was only going to be like a couple of weeks on virtual, and
then it was, you know, a month, and then it kept getting extended, so--
PFEIFFER: --yeah, yeah--
GRAY: --there was no real guidance to it. It was--it was kind of just
free-for-all; you're on your own; you've got to figure it out.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Well, you mentioned at the beginning, it was just an expectation
that it'd be, I know from my school, I heard two weeks virtually--
GRAY: --yeah--
PFEIFFER: --and then we'll be coming back. How did you feel then when they said,
"Oh, just kidding; it's going to be longer."
GRAY: At that point, I realized that it was probably--we probably weren't going
to come back for the rest of the year, and I really started to doubt what it
would look like for the next school year and how that would affect it.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Uh, did you all end up going back the following school year, or
was that still virtual?
GRAY: No. We ended up, I think it was at the end of my junior year,
00:10:00they finally started doing hybrid, so we went to school twice a week, and then
we did virtual three days.
PFEIFFER: Oh, got you. How did that experience compare?
GRAY: I did not like that at all. It was very weird um, because--(laughs)--I was
just going in between being at my house for three days to going to school for
two days, and teachers were trying to figure out what they were going to do with
us when we were in class, because they were--had at that point, had already
transitioned to like, "This is how we're going to do it on virtual," so then
they had to figure out how they were going to handle incorporating both
in-person and virtual together.
PFEIFFER: Right. So, that definitely had to be a very new experience for the
teachers. How would you say some of that came down to the students, of the
teachers feeling a bit lost?
GRAY: It led to a lot of students feeling lost. There were--I think there were a
lot of kids that failed more classes than usual, um, so the fail rate in my
school was a lot higher because of that. Because the teachers felt
00:11:00lost, there wasn't as much organization or structure in the curriculum, and kids
weren't getting as much support as they needed.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Yeah. Was it--did you find it made academics more difficult for you?
GRAY: For me in particular, it did but only for my, um, AP classes at the time.
It made it a lot harder to study for that test because when it was in-person, we
would have all like weeks of review for the test. And virtually, we were
struggling to just get that material--get through that material quick enough and
have people understand it, so there wasn't much review time before the test. And
so, coincidentally, I ended up failing. I only failed one AP class, but I still
failed one, um, for chemistry, which was very frustrating.
PFEIFFER: That would be so hard to do chemistry online. My goodness.
GRAY: I could not do it. (laughs)
PFEIFFER: Yeah.
GRAY: I was hardly functioning in that class.
00:12:00
PFEIFFER: Well, and did doing classes virtually or in the hybrid format affect
the access that you had to your teachers or to help in that way?
GRAY: It did because, um, a lot of my teachers had very set, like, "I'll be
available from this time to this time," but sometimes those times, you were--you
had a class, or it was not feasible because you had something else to do.
It--and so it became like a very much trying to schedule that out when you had
so much conflicting, because they weren't communicating on what their hours were
that you could Zoom them individually.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I would imagine it'd make social life a bit
harder, um, with going virtual.
GRAY: Um-hm.
PFEIFFER: How would you say that affected your relationships with your
classmates and peers?
GRAY: Uh--(laughs)--I didn't really have a relationship with them--
PFEIFFER: --sure--
GRAY: --after we went into isolation, I kind of stopped talking to
00:13:00people for the most part because I have that issue where if they're not like
right in front of me, I just forget to talk to people, and so then I was--I lost
all my friends, and then I was isolated, which made me just like a little
depressed and not happy.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Yeah. How--can you expand on that, how that emotionally took a
toll on you?
GRAY: I--I've always been an introvert, but I didn't realize how much I still
enjoyed having that social interaction every day and just being able to expect
it, and so when that was gone, I was alone, and I didn't know what to do with
myself or my free time, and so I just was just kind of stuck in my room and just
didn't know what to do and felt lost and a little hopeless with COVID.
PFEIFFER: Yeah, absolutely. So, with school, had you, prior to COVID, been
involved with any extracurriculars or get involved with outside-of-class
activities?
00:14:00
GRAY: Um, yes. Um, I did, um, Academic Team. I did a lot of volunteering, like
through Boy Scouts, which I was a part of, and, um, I was no longer really able
to do any of that. Um, so, it was very weird because I'd had always had like so
many extracurriculars I was doing or volunteering, and then I wasn't able to do
any of that, and then I was just kind of bored--(laughs)--for most of the time.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Did they find any way to adapt those sort of activities to be
virtual, or was it just completely gone?
GRAY: No. It was just completely gone. A lot of--
PFEIFFER: --yeah--
GRAY: --the extracurriculars just went away.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. So, did it feel like you just had extra time on your hands, or
did that time get filled up in other ways?
GRAY: No, it was just extra time, so everything seemed to drag out longer.
PFEIFFER: Sure. Sure. So, with being at home then, you probably spent
00:15:00a lot more time around your family.
GRAY: Yes.
PFEIFFER: How was that?
GRAY: We fought a lot more--(laughs)--
PFEIFFER: --sure--
GRAY: --than we normally do and got onto each other's nerves a lot more, um, and
started really nitpicking like individual behaviors like, "Stop leaving your
plate on the--at dinner." Like with my stepmom, she did that a lot, which was
never really a big deal, but like all these small things seemed to, like, become
a lot bigger issues than they actually were, when we were stuck together for so long.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Yeah. Would you say that was just a result of the outside stress--
GRAY: --it's--
PFEIFFER: --or just being around each other more?
GRAY: I think it was a result of the outside stress and just constantly being
around each other. So, we were just--we were just so exposed to each other so
often during that time, it was a lot easier to become irritated with small
things that weren't really any big deal--
PFEIFFER: --sure--
GRAY: --that led--that led into an argument or something, and we would have to,
you know--we ended up--(laughs)--having like separate rooms, where we
00:16:00would just--(laughs)--hole away.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Yeah. How did your family adapt then with the isolation and
being around each other so much? What changes did you make?
GRAY: Um, luckily, my stepmom worked at home already, so it wasn't a big change
for her at all. My mom just, she was already, I think, doing two days, um,
virtual, so it was not a big deal for her either, so they were--both didn't
really have to adapt that much, besides just, you know, having to be at the
house a lot more and having to deal with, you know, like, cooking and things.
Um, obviously, I helped with that too. So, I was really the one with the biggest
period of transition with that, trying to figure out how to manage it.
PFEIFFER: Got you. Got you. How many people were in your household that were
isolating together?
GRAY: Four.
PFEIFFER: Four? Got you. Um, yeah, so how would you say that the time
00:17:00being isolated and having all this extra time together and all this extra free
time affected your relationships with those other people in your household?
GRAY: Um, we had--(laughs)--to learn how to express our--our emotions or like
irritation with each other in a--in a more healthy manner, so there was a lot
more discussion between family members in my house. Um, and I would say it
actually helped us build a better relationship, um, just because we learned how
to communicate more effectively and, um, how to be angry in a less destructive
way towards each other--
PFEIFFER: --sure--
GRAY: --because then before--before COVID, there was just a lot of--like, you
know, just verbal back-and-forth that was--never led anywhere. It just made
things worse. And with COVID, we learned how to have more of a discussion with
that and redirect that towards a healthier relationship.
00:18:00
PFEIFFER: Hmm. Would you say those were intentional changes, or did that just
come naturally?
GRAY: Some of it came naturally. A lot of it was intentional because it was
like, we are going to murder each other if we don't figure out how
to--(laughs)--like coexist peacefully.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Well, and you also talked about experiencing a lot of boredom
because having--
GRAY: --yeah--
PFEIFFER: --less to do and being home all the time. How did you adapt, related
to that?
GRAY: Um, I read a lot more. I've always been a reader, so I spent a lot of my
free time reading or just researching random topics I found fascinating.
PFEIFFER: Yeah.
GRAY: That was about it.
PFEIFFER: Yeah.
GRAY: I'm a very boring person. (laughs)
PFEIFFER: Any particularly good books you found?
GRAY: Um, The Invisible Life of Audrey--Addie LaRue, I really liked that one.
PFEIFFER: That sounds fun. Nice. So, you mentioned that your family was very
cautious from the beginning and even putting in precautions early on.
00:19:00Um, how did you all handle things like grocery shopping and things you needed to
leave the house for?
GRAY: Um, we left the house as little as possible, um, and so when we went
grocery shopping, it was only just one of us that went.
PFEIFFER: Got you. Got you. Um, hmm, so, also, going back to the topic of school--
GRAY: --um-hm--
PFEIFFER: --um, thinking about, you were at home for a good portion of your
sophomore and junior year then--
GRAY: --um-hm--
PFEIFFER: --correct?
GRAY: Yes.
PFEIFFER: Would you say that there were things you felt you missed out on
because of that?
GRAY: Um, see, that's a great question because I don't really know what I
would've missed out on, um, so it was very interesting to have that gap where I
was here and I didn't know what normally happened like for people in their like
late sophomore, all junior year in high school. So, it was very
00:20:00interesting to see, like talk to people that had been in-person, and they're
like, "Oh, yeah, we did all these things," or, "We went on this, like, trip with
this class," that we didn't get to do, you know, because we were virtual.
PFEIFFER: Sure. Sure. Um, and then when you went back, how would you say that
your experience was different, after having been online and doing hybrid for so
long versus when you were just fully in-person before?
GRAY: Everyone talked a lot more--(laughs)--once we got back and was a lot more
friendly with each other, surprisingly. It was like everyone was just craving
human contact that they had missed during COVID.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Yeah. Would you say that having been at home and having to do
school virtually caused any anxiety for you related to school?
GRAY: Um, yes, because I was scared of like failing my chemistry
00:21:00class. It just overall was harder to keep my grades up than it had been before,
because before I had been like a really easy perfect-A student, and then I was
getting, you know, Bs, and I got a C in chemistry, and that made me anxious,
like trying to figure out how to get better grades when I was struggling with
doing everything virtually.
PFEIFFER: Yeah, that had to be a frustrating experience.
GRAY: Yes.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. How do you feel about how the administration at your school
handled--handled those changes?
GRAY: I do not think my administration handled them well, but it was more the
school board's policies were a lot more--they--they were against like COVID
regulations for the most part, so they went back quicker than they should've.
They got rid of mask in my senior years quicker than they should've, um, just a
lot of things that I didn't really agree with that they did. They didn't take it
as seriously as I think they should have.
00:22:00
PFEIFFER: Sure. How did that affect your experience with going to school then?
GRAY: It was a--very scary, especially during senior year when everyone was
maskless. I--I was still wearing a mask, but a lot of people were maskless, but
COVID was still very much a real threat, um, especially for immunocompromised
individuals, and since my family is made--made up of immunocompromised
individuals, I was--I did not like being in the school environment again because
I didn't feel safe.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Did that make it harder for you to like handle academics and such?
GRAY: Um, it did a little bit because I just had that like daunting like fear,
and I was kind of more consumed with that than I was focused on my schoolwork,
which I think impacted the, um, quality of work I put into it, and effort.
PFEIFFER: Sure. Uh, what about with the extracurriculars and such
00:23:00that you'd been involved with before? Did those go back into person and happen again?
GRAY: They did, but I ended up not going back to them.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Why is that?
GRAY: I'm not really sure. I just guess I kind of got used to not having them,
so when they were offered again, I was just like, "Eh, I guess I'll just not do them."
PFEIFFER: Sure. Sure. Uh, you mentioned picking up reading more--
GRAY: --um-hm--
PFEIFFER: --during COVID. Would you say that's something that continued after
things started to go back in-person?
GRAY: Yes. I've always been a reader. I mean, I read a little less, but I was
still reading a lot.
PFEIFFER: Got you. Got you. Um, and then, so at this point, you're in college.
Um, how would you say that process of applying for college and doing
standardized testing and all of that may have been affected by your COVID experiences?
GRAY: It was--it was definitely interesting because like the ACT and things,
they were online for the first time that they'd ever been in my
00:24:00district, so there were a lot of technology--technology hiccups. And there--and
then it was hard, trying to go visit schools during it because they were having
very limited slots or opportunities to go visit schools, so then you were
applying to colleges, but you didn't really get to see the campus. Um, I mean,
you got to see some pictures, but it wasn't really--you know, it was kind of
more blind than it should have been, really, with it. Um, and so, that made it
more challenging. Um, but where I ended up going, um, Berea, I did get to visit,
so I got to see the campus and things, and that definitely swayed my opinion to
go there.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Would you say that some of that made the process more stressful?
GRAY: Um, a little bit, yeah, because I didn't--I was like, "I don't know where
I want to go because I don't know what any of these campuses look like. I
haven't met anybody there. I don't know anybody," you know, and it
00:25:00was hard to like--and then--then my school guidance counselor, um, was not
helpful with like applications and things, um, which made that stressful, so,
and then I was struggling with trying to get all the standardized testing and
all this stuff that had to be done online now that before had been, like, on
paper. And we don't have great internet where I live, and so that made
everything a lot harder to get done.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Yeah. So, moving away from school a little bit, um, I want to
talk about sort of your personal experience during COVID.
GRAY: Um-hm.
PFEIFFER: So, of course, there's so many factors that come into play, but how
would you say that COVID overall affected you mentally and emotionally?
GRAY: I think it definitely put me in a worse spot than I had been, because I
had been working really hard on myself because I have some mental
00:26:00health issues anyway, and I--and being isolated kind of exasperated my
depression and anxiety a lot more, and so I was struggling with that. And
it--it--I was dealing with more of my--I don't know if I can say this. I don't
know if I should say this on an interview--self-harm tendencies that I'd had
prior and had gotten over kind of became--they became an issue again during COVID.
PFEIFFER: Sure. Sure. Um, again, would you say that that was more from like the
stress of this pandemic--
GRAY: --it was--
PFEIFFER: --or just because--
GRAY: --it was stress and isolation. So, I was alone, and I had too much free
time, so, you know, I had too much time to think, to be honest--
PFEIFFER: --yeah--
GRAY: --(laughs)--with myself. And I didn't know how to deal with that because
I'd always been so busy, which added another layer to just being alone.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. And would you say that your access to especially
00:27:00mental health help changed during COVID?
GRAY: Yes, it--it substantially decreased. So, like I didn't really see a
therapist during that, when I had been before, and so a lot of my access was
kind of just cut off when it came to mental health services.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Yeah. How did you find ways to cope with that, or was it a
struggle all the way through?
GRAY: It was pretty much a struggle all the way through. Um,I definitely,
like--I started like doing more, like, self-care apps, um, like journaling and
things, and trying to help, like, constructively change--change my thoughts to
more like constructive, like, you know, "We got this. We can do this, get
through it," instead of just like sitting there, wallowing in my own, like, you
know, self-loathing of being in the situation.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Would you say that those steps you took were beneficial then?
GRAY: They were, yes.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Yeah. Would you say--so, you'd said there was more
00:28:00time to think. Was there more like introspection then?
GRAY: There was a lot more introspection, um, where previously I just kind of
avoided thinking about myself. (laughs)
PFEIFFER: Sure.
GRAY: So, that was very interesting to deal with.
PFEIFFER: Yeah, probably harder to get away from when you're spending so much
time at home?
GRAY: Um-hm.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Um, would you say that during COVID, when you all were
isolating, did you tend to spend more time by yourself and just hanging out,
doing your thing, or did you prioritize spending time with other people in your household?
GRAY: No, I just kind of did my own thing because, um, at that point, we were
just kind of a little, just like didn't know what to do with ourselves.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Yeah. Is--was that probably the case for the other folks in your
household as well?
GRAY: Yes.
PFEIFFER: Got you. Got you. Um, so, as the restrictions started to
00:29:00decrease, you said that you did feel some of that went away too quickly--
GRAY: --um-hm--
PFEIFFER: --um, but how did your family start to handle that? Did you start to
have less isolation?
GRAY: Eventually, we went a lot slower than most people did when it came to
that, so--
PFEIFFER: --sure--
GRAY: --instead of not seeing anybody, maybe we'd see like one to two people,
um, or like have a small gathering of like our family and like a couple family
friends that live like close. Um, but we still did a lot of masking, a lot of
still staying at home, even when those restrictions were lifting, just to be safe.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and did you all have contact with like extended
family during isolation, or was it pretty much just you guys?
GRAY: It was--we had a little bit. I mean, we did a--we did some phone calls
with my grandparents, but it was mainly just us.
PFEIFFER: Sure. Was that a change from before COVID happened, or was
00:30:00it about the same?
GRAY: It was--it was a little different. Normally, I mean, we were used to
seeing my stepmom's family a lot more because my biologic family lives in
Bowling Greens, and that's like two hours from where I am. But we didn't see
them as much as we had, um, even before COVID.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Got you. Got you. Um, well, you also talked about having some
additional risk among your family with like health issues.
GRAY: Um-hm.
PFEIFFER: What was that anxiety like, of knowing that this disease is out there?
GRAY: Um, it was very anxiety inducing, especially because we didn't really know
what would--like how severe it would be if one of us got it or if one of us got
it and was asymptomatic and gave it to the-- some of the others, like how, if it
got to be--or--and then like there would be like, you know--it was just very
stressful. (laughs)
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Yeah. Did you all stay updated on like the numbers of
00:31:00COVID cases and such throughout?
GRAY: Yes, we did.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Where were you finding that information?
GRAY: Um, we watched a lot of news. Um, I looked up a lot of it myself. I just
read a lot of articles about it and the update--updated numbers that came out
like every week and all of that.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Got you. Um, were there any like sources in particular that you
really liked to go to?
GRAY: Um, I really liked to go to CNN, or um, uh, NPR did some, like, good, um,
stuff on COVID.
PFEIFFER: Got you. Got you. So, a little bit later into COVID, of course there
was the rollout of vaccines.
GRAY: Um-hm.
PFEIFFER: How did you feel when there first started to be a conversation about
there are vaccines coming?
GRAY: Well, I was excited that there were vaccines. Um, my family
00:32:00definitely ridiculed and made fun of anti-vaxxers like the entire
time--(laughs)--and got vaccines as soon as possible.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Were there any people in your life who sort of took the other
side of that?
GRAY: Yes, a lot of my stepmother's family did, and it--we did not really have
that much contact with them during that because they chose not to get vaccinated.
PFEIFFER: Got you. Um, how did that influence your interactions with them later
on? Or was it something that you all just tried to ignore?
GRAY: It--we pretty much just did not talk about it. We ignored it--
PFEIFFER: --yeah. Yeah. But you'd say that--
GRAY: --because our politics already differed a lot, so ignoring it was easier
for us than to have that discussion that would probably--would not have ended well.
PFEIFFER: Sure. Sure. So, prioritized maintaining those relationships then?
GRAY: Um-hm, yes.
00:33:00
PFEIFFER: Got you. Got you. Um, but yeah, so when those vaccines were first
coming out, you did mention that you felt excited. Were you--
GRAY: --yeah--
PFEIFFER: --wary at all and going, "Mm, I need to wait to find out more," or was
it just instant, "Yes, this is good."
GRAY: It--it was just an instant yes. I'm very much for vaccines when it comes
to that stuff. I did--a lot of the research on the vaccine seemed very
promising. There wasn't a lot of negatives to it, um, so...
PFEIFFER: Sure. Yeah. Well, of course, a lot of people expressed concern with
how quickly things-GRAY: --um-hm--
PFEIFFER: --were happening. What was your response to those sorts of challenges?
GRAY: I--I don't feel like it was super--I mean, it was quick, but--very quick
in terms of getting it through and approved and things, but vaccines have been
worked on for years with diseases similar to COVID, so there was a lot of prior
research to go on when trying to develop those vaccines--
00:34:00
PFEIFFER: --yeah. Yeah--
GRAY: --so it wasn't entirely a new thing. It wasn't--it wasn't completely novel.
PFEIFFER: Would you say that you had a lot of confidence in the science behind
it then?
GRAY: I did, yes.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Uh, well, and you're also talking about wanting to go into
public health and all.
GRAY: Um-hm.
PFEIFFER: Uh, would you say your positive regard for public health during COVID
affected that decision?
GRAY: Um, yes, a little bit.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Yeah. So, as COVID was happening and you're seeing these
vaccines roll out, you're seeing--
GRAY: --um-hm--
PFEIFFER: --all of this information coming out, um, yeah, how did you feel about
how especially the Kentucky government handled all of that?
GRAY: I think the Kentucky government did the best they could when it came to
that because everyone--every state was just kind of trying to figure out how to
best roll them out, um, so I think Kentucky did a good job in how
00:35:00they prioritized it, um--
PFEIFFER: --yeah--
GRAY: --like teachers and healthcare workers and then people that were
immunocompromised and the elderly. I think they did a good job on how they kind
of, um, had that in different chunks of how--when people could get the vaccines.
PFEIFFER: Sure. Did you feel like they were providing sufficient information
about COVID and the vaccines?
GRAY: I'm not honestly sure if they did.
PFEIFFER: Sure.
GRAY: (laughs). But I also kept up to date on the information myself and didn't
really rely on the Kentucky government's, like, announcements. I mean, I'd done
their announcements when they were rolling out things, but when it came to the
actual, like, hard data and science, I was looking more at, like, different sources.
PFEIFFER: Sure. Yeah. What about then, like, the federal government? How do you
feel about how they handled things?
GRAY: I--(laughs)--do not think handled--(laughs)--that well at all
00:36:00and took their sweet time in putting in--they didn't take COVID seriously in the
beginning, which made it worse and exasperated it as--as a pandemic.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, did you look to, like, the federal government or the
CDC at all for information?
GRAY: I looked at the CDC a lot.
PFEIFFER: Yeah.
GRAY: I followed their guidelines.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Was--did you find that to be a helpful source?
GRAY: I did, yes.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Um, well, we're getting about to the end of the questions that I
have for you. Um, but are there any additional thoughts you have on like how the
governmental systems you were exposed to handled COVID?
GRAY: I--my opinions changed definitely because I saw how COVID became so
quickly politicized when it definitely should've stayed a rigid, more
00:37:00scientific approach to it, and I think the government would've handled it a lot
better if they had and taken it more seriously in the beginning. And I don't
think it would've gotten as severe as it did if they had put in precautions like
mandatory masking or like the isolation sooner, as some other countries did, and
they--their numbers were--were reduced a lot quicker.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Well, that--that brings up another great question. Um, say
something like this were to happen again.
GRAY: Um-hm.
PFEIFFER: How would you want to see the government handle it differently next time?
GRAY: I would definitely want them to stay bipartisan on the issue and not bring
politics into it and to definitely really follow like what the CDC--CD--why did
I just have like a stroke saying that? I'm so sorry.
PFEIFFER: No worries. (laughs)
GRAY: Um, like follow their guidelines more, um, and take it more
00:38:00seriously, like with putting in the precautions like masking and working on
vaccines sooner than they started this time.
PFEIFFER: Sure. Sure. Um, well, and then how also would you say that you'd like
to see other systems do things differently? So, you talked about some
frustrations with, uh, the Board of Education--
GRAY: --um-hm--
PFEIFFER: --and school and all. How would you like to see the school system
handle things differently?
GRAY: I would have liked if it was more uniform, so if like the education system
had gone and said like, "In Kentucky, we're going to follow the CDC guidelines,
all of us are, to a T. That's what we're going to do," instead of having that
individual like county-by-county, um, regulations. That was really awkward to
have because some were doing really good with regulations, some not so much.
Some were ending them really quick. Some extended them really farther out than
maybe was necessary, so there was a lot of just difference across the
00:39:00board, when I feel like it should've been a more equalized approach to it and a
standardized approach.
PFEIFFER: Sure. Sure. Um, you also talked before about a lack of resources and a
lot of people feeling unprepared to handle something like this--
GRAY: --yeah--
PFEIFFER: --with online school. How would you like to see the online school part
look different?
GRAY: I definitely think teachers should be more prepared in how online school
should, like, be structured, because they never--they didn't really have any
training on online schooling, and they were trying to figure out themselves. And
there wasn't a lot of guidance from the school itself on how to handle it, so I
feel like if they implemented education, just preventative education on how we
should do online and had a structure in place, it would be a lot easier if there
was a need to transition to virtual again.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. And how could the school do better about, like,
00:40:00providing resources for their students, do you think?
GRAY: Um, so, I think my school did relatively well with like, they had Wi-Fi
hotspots in different places where you could go or rent out a hotspot to take
home, which was very helpful. Um, but, um, also, I feel like the school
should've had--I feel like not all extracurriculars should've been canceled. I
feel like that put more of a strain on students than it could have if they had
it in some capacity or virtualized it where they had not.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Oh, well, and a question I didn't think to ask earlier, so you
talked about some of your experience having ADHD.
GRAY: Um-hm.
PFEIFFER: Um, I know, in school, there are ways that they can make
accommodations and handle some of that. Uh, do you think there're additional
ways that schools might be able to offer accommodations for folks
00:41:00with disabilities when doing online school?
GRAY: I feel like yes because they could--like a lot of teachers, they didn't
really have to follow those accommodations like they had to in-person, so they
got away with like not accommodating people as much. Um--
PFEIFFER: --oh, really?
GRAY: Yeah.
PFEIFFER: Yeah, how so?
GRAY: Um, so, like when people, like, are supposed to have like extra test time,
or--or they were supposed to be able to, like, take breaks from class, um, or
leave early, that obviously wasn't really a thing online, or when people, like,
got overwhelmed, they couldn't just--a lot of teachers wouldn't just let them
leave, whereas before they had accommodations that they could go out into the
hallway and like take a break or a breather or etcetera.
PFEIFFER: Got you.
GRAY: So, there--
PFEIFFER: --got you--
GRAY: --was a lot less concern for accommodations than there had been in person.
PFEIFFER: Yeah. Well, and also just the change in format may also result
in additional difficulty. Do you think there are ways that that could
00:42:00be improved or accommodated?
GRAY: I'm not really sure--(laughs)--because I'm not--
PFEIFFER: Sure.
GRAY: I just don't know.
PFEIFFER: Sure.
GRAY: Education is not my forte.
PFEIFFER: No, that's totally fair. Um, but yeah, well, anyways, yeah, that's
about the questions that I have.
GRAY: Um-hm.
PFEIFFER: Do you have any final thoughts on just what your experience was during
COVID or how things could look different if this were to happen again?
GRAY: Um, no, not really. (laughs)
PFEIFFER: All right, that is totally fine. All right, thank you for your time.
I'm going to go ahead and stop this recording.
GRAY: All right.
[End of interview.]
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