Interview with Uri Jeremias, July 24, 2023

FERNHEIMER: If you wanna start, then I'll give a little introduction.

JEREMIAS: Okay.

FERNHEIMER: Today is Monday, July 24, 2023. My name is Janice W. Fernheimer. I am the Professor of Writing, Rhetoric, and Digital Studies, the Zantker Professor of Jewish Studies, and the University of Kentucky James B. Beam Spirits Institute Faculty Fellow at U.K. And I'm sitting here with the amazing and world-renowned Uri Jeremias.

JEREMIAS: Jeremias.

FERNHEIMER: Jeremias. Of Uri Buri, here at the restaurant, Uri Buri. And yeah, we were having a little chat before we got officially started in talking about the challenges of defining Israeli food.

JEREMIAS: First of all, welcome.

FERNHEIMER: Thank you. 00:01:00Thank you for waiting. (both laugh)

JEREMIAS: To define Israeli food, you can ask one thousand people in Israel, "What is Israeli food?" and you will get one thousand answers. And this is actually what it is because one calls Israeli food maybe gefilte fish that their grandparents brought from Poland, and it's very popular in Israel. And another one says it is the Moroccan fish, that spicy fish they eat on Friday every Shabbat. So it is, it is impossible to define it from this point of view. For me, it is the mixture of all of these different things and experiences and kinds of raw materials, et cetera, with a lot of vegetables and a lot of, lot of 00:02:00spices, but not at the same time, not in--(Hebrew) It is for us here, it is the ability to play with all these raw materials, with all the rich and huge assortment of vegetables, fruits, and herbs that we have here and that we grow here. This gives us a huge space to manipulate all these together to something that is suddenly a new future. But everybody does whatever he feels like. 00:03:00And I think that this is a cacophony of tastes. Some of them are very successful, and some of them are very pretentious without really, really any oversight. For me, it's my liberty to do whatever I want.

FERNHEIMER: Tell me--I want to back up a little bit. I understand that you were born to German parents here in Israel in 1944, if I'm--what I read is not mistaken.

JEREMIAS: Yes.

FERNHEIMER: Tell me about--a little bit about your family origins and how your parents met and when and how they came to Israel.

JEREMIAS: My grandfather--

FERNHEIMER: --thank you--

JEREMIAS: --from my mother's side was a delegate--[glass breaking]--was a delegate of the American 00:04:00Jews to the first, the first--

FERNHEIMER: --Congress?--

JEREMIAS: --Congress.

FERNHEIMER: Wow.

JEREMIAS: And he was actually born in Germany. There was his father and left when he was very young. He was a musician. His mother was an actress and traveled and left the children in an orphan house--

FERNHEIMER: --I'm gonna move this closer to you--

JEREMIAS: --in Germany. And so he was, he was grown up, and a much elder brother. And the brother went to the United States, he was a lawyer. And when he grew up, my grandfather, he went to United States looking for his brother and didn't find him. But he saw all the 00:05:00Jewish people in New York that were suffering--was very bad years--very bad years. He, he, he tried to go to the first Jewish Congress in order to recommend that they will train some people and prepare all the necessary things to bring all the poor people from the United States to Palestine once it is freed from the Ottoman government -----------(??). He was--when they fin--when it was finished [phone ringing] to Congress, he realized 00:06:00that the best thing is if he will go and live in Palestine and make the -----------(??) to prepare and make this dream come true. He started agronomy, and he married a German-origin lady that was working in a, in a bacadus (??) bank in the--she was working in the bacadus bank in Jaffa. They got married, and in 1906, she was--got sick and had a problem in her lungs and couldn't live in Jaffa. So she moved to Germany, and there, there he was--she was 00:07:00living, and my grandfather came every Congress--Jewish Congress to Berlin. And then they had children by congresses.

FERNHEIMER: (laughs)

JEREMIAS: And every child who reached the age of eighteen came to live with the grandfather.

FERNHEIMER: Wow.

JEREMIAS: With their father, my grandfather. My grandmother was killed in Theresienstadt in a camp. And my mother arrived in Israel in 1930. My father was born in Poznan.

FERNHEIMER: In where?

JEREMIAS: Poznan, it was in Poland today, it was--

FERNHEIMER: --how do you say it--

JEREMIAS: --Poznan--

FERNHEIMER: --Poznan--

JEREMIAS: --as today it's Poland, it was German at the time. 00:08:00And in 1918, after the First World War, it was given back to Poland. And they were--how you put it--they were sent out as, as German from there, and he lived in Berlin for a while. And then he went to the first Jewish School--agriculture school in Hanover, Ahlem. [dishes noise] And he--(Hebrew). 00:09:00Where were we? Yeah, so he was, he was studying in the first Jewish agriculture school to make Aliyah, he was a Zionist.

FERNHEIMER: Where was the agricultural school located?

JEREMIAS: What?

FERNHEIMER: --(Hebrew)--

JEREMIAS: Hanover.

FERNHEIMER: Hanover, okay.

JEREMIAS: Alem, it was called. A-l-e-m--A-h-l-e-m.

FERNHEIMER: And he came to Israel when?

JEREMIAS: 1930 or so.

FERNHEIMER: 1930 or so.

JEREMIAS: A bit later after m, my mother came. And they -----------(??) Jewish organizations, settlement -----------(??). And they lived in the kibbutz, like the 00:10:00kibbutz that they built up.

FERNHEIMER: Where was that kibbutz?

JEREMIAS: It's--

FERNHEIMER: --where was it--

JEREMIAS: --it was in the like near Kafar Yehezkel (??), Afula (??) in this area. And later, he--(Hebrew)--yeah.

FERNHEIMER: And when did they move or land?

JEREMIAS: My brothers moved to Akko 00:11:00in 1934. And my parents--my mother worked in a coffee shop in Akko, and my father went every day to Nahariya, which was not built yet. It was just to prepare the land for the newcomers to come, and it was a swamp, so they had to dry it and to make all the work. And then when Nahariya was founded, they didn't have enough money to pay him for his work, so they gave him a piece of land. And that's how I was born in Nahariya.

FERNHEIMER: Okay. You mentioned something interesting, one of the articles I read, that while you were growing up, your parents fostered other children.

JEREMIAS: Yes.

FERNHEIMER: Tell me about that.

JEREMIAS: But we have also 00:12:00children -----------(??).

FERNHEIMER: Yeah.

JEREMIAS: But at that time, it was very complicated because the government was not there, the Israeli government, and children came from the war, from the Holocaust and without their parents others with some very different--difficult behavioral and other problems. And our house was open, so--(laughs)--

FERNHEIMER: --so people came in and out?--

JEREMIAS: --yeah, ------------(??).

FERNHEIMER: And how many siblings do you have?

JEREMIAS: Today, we have actually direct contact with three of them. One of them is in Arabica (??), and the other one--it's children that we have really contact with for years, and we're celebrating 00:13:00the holy days together and so on. And one, Bila (??), is in Australia, and she comes and spends all her vacations at home. Before, she came to visit my mother and stayed with her on her vacations, and now she's coming in to visit us, which is approximately six weeks a year, she's living with us in Nahariya.

FERNHEIMER: Nice.

JEREMIAS: And so it is kind of--and myself, we have three daughters and three girls that was grown up in our house.

FERNHEIMER: Okay, now I understand what you mean.

JEREMIAS: One of them came yesterday home from England for three weeks--

FERNHEIMER: --nice--

JEREMIAS: --with her children. And she's coming 00:14:00every year and making her vacations here. She's a doctor in search of infectious diseases at King's College in London. So it is not, not boring in our house.

FERNHEIMER: (laughs) I bet not. And did you have other siblings that your parents had other children?

JEREMIAS: What?

FERNHEIMER: Do you have other brothers and sisters?

JEREMIAS: Two sisters, yeah, but they, they are already gone.

FERNHEIMER: I'm sorry.

JEREMIAS: Yeah, me too. (laughs)

FERNHEIMER: Yeah. I understand that school was challenging, and that you enjoyed fishing, from the things that I read.

JEREMIAS: Well, school was not challenging because it was not a school. I spent most of that--I have attention disorder, and I have very little patience for teachers, 00:15:00and for studying. And actually, I had an agreement with them that I will not disturb them from teaching, and they will not disturb me from going to sea and spending my time there.

FERNHEIMER: (laughs)

JEREMIAS: And I managed to stay with this agreement until I was sixteen, and then they decided that they can't control it anymore, and five years too late, they throw me out of school. They should've done it five years before, but they didn't. So I started to travel a little bit and doing all kinds of things, but I learned my own way in very, in very different--many different disciplines. 00:16:00So I have a small knowledge in a very wide range of things, and if something interests me, I'm going deeper into the matter. It's not--somehow it took me many years to understand that having attention disorder is a privilege and not a curse.

FERNHEIMER: What, what made you finally realize that?

JEREMIAS: When I realized it's thinking different, and it's not necessarily thinking wrong. Yeah? Because before, I thought that if I'm thinking different than most of the people, then I must be wrong and not them. I found out after 00:17:00many years that most people don't think, they follow. So if you think, and you have your own conclusions, and they are different of what the true thinkers or non-thinkers think, that doesn't have to discourage me from going with the things I believe in or I understand. It just matter what I believe in, is not religious, it is my understanding.

FERNHEIMER: When did you begin to have a sense that you might be interested in things connected with food?

JEREMIAS: It was, it was being connected to the sea, is by definition being connected to seafood and all kinds of small things that I found out that are edible. And mind you, it was the time of big 00:18:00shortage in food, and we didn't have any meat or eggs, and everything was in, in portions, you know?

FERNHEIMER: Yeah, rationing.

JEREMIAS: Yeah, rations. And it was, it was also very expensive to the, to the balance of what my parents earned and all the children at home. So I was finding all the shells and things that were edible and so on, and it's not--it developed, you know, over the years. But the real understanding of the power, the social power of food, was when I started to travel, and I had this bus I was cooking in and living in.

FERNHEIMER: Is the VW bus you bought in Germany?

JEREMIAS: I bought it in Germany, and I traveled to 00:19:00India with the bus. And on, on the way, I discovered the power of food as a social event, you know, where everybody wants to be your friend in such a situation where everybody is going for some smells of food from home or some tastes. And they suddenly start in the middle of the desert to cook, if not people, then animals will come from all holes, out of holes, and come and sniff around and see if there is any leftovers for them.

FERNHEIMER: How old were you roughly at this time?

JEREMIAS: Aye?

FERNHEIMER: How old were you when you were cooking in the van? How old--what--

JEREMIAS: --I was--I finished my army service, and I started to travel. And I was between twenty-one--I traveled before -----------(??), but it is actual-- 00:20:00it was from twenty-one to twenty five, four years I, I traveled. It's a superpower. There are two things that can make friends very fast. One is music, and the other is food. If you are a painter or a mathematician or whatever, you know, it might be interesting type of thing talk about. But to be a friend of someone who knows how to cook and far away from home it's something that is a privilege that only few people find. And eating in local restaurants, but also if you cook at home, if you invite people, and they know you're making good food, people are happy to come and taste it. There is something to talk about, and they, they respect much more many other things because it's also something 00:21:00you can satisfy many people at the same time. Like music, a concert, if you give a good concert, everybody who was moved by your music wants to meet you, wants to talk to you. And the same with the food, you know if you cook, then you have many people around. They want to ask you, "How are you doing this? How are you doing that? Where do you find these spices?" All, all of the things around it are interesting, it's not just--if you look at someone who paints very well, you can envy him for knowing to paint, you know? But it is more or less ended there. Music and food is something that is ongoing interest.

FERNHEIMER: Yeah. So while you were traveling in this van all across in India, 00:22:00tell me about that. What kind of really inspired you to begin to think that food might be something you could do?

JEREMIAS: It is not--I had to eat, and I had my van, and I had my cooking equipment with me, so it was just natural that I had all this bad (??) food in the desert of Persia and so on, or in Afghanistan or wherever, Turkey and some places. If you want to have something that is a little bit different, and it's an adventure, and people are coming and sniffing and saying, "Wow, wow, may we taste this? Can we join you?" and so on. And usually, everybody who likes food, we always cook a little bit more than we need. But I don't know how it happened.

FERNHEIMER: (laughs) So you have some to share.

JEREMIAS: In my poorest, my poorest times, I still cooked more than I could eat, 00:23:00so there was always someone who enjoyed this. And I think that this is something that is binding people, like very few other things.

FERNHEIMER: So when you came back to Israel after all these travels, what, what year was that when you returned here?

JEREMIAS: What?

FERNHEIMER: After traveling, when did you return to Israel, what year was it?

JEREMIAS: I returned to Israel in '69. After my travel, I came back home on a Monday, and on Sunday, I went to a party of a friend. He was finishing his underservice, and a party is for my neighbor, and it was finished. It was, it was on a Friday, she came to the party 00:24:00with someone else. I told her, "I'll take you home," and she said, "No, I'm with someone else, but we'll meet tomorrow morning." We met Saturday morning, went to the beach which is just near our house, and we still live on the same street near the same scene. And then we spent the whole day together, then more on Sunday. I go to the train to go to army service, and when she came back on Friday, we already had the house rented on the beach, and we moved to live together. And I haven't offered her to marry me since, and it seems she is still waiting. (both laugh)

FERNHEIMER: So you've been--that's more than fifty years together now, right?

JEREMIAS: Fifty-four years -----------(??).

FERNHEIMER: Wow, amazing. So what's your wife--what's her name?

JEREMIAS: Yael.

FERNHEIMER: And so you met Yael very quickly 00:25:00and began your life together. When did you start thinking about--how were you making your living there while you were--

JEREMIAS: I came back because my father had wanted me to come and help with the business, and I started to work with him. He had a gas distribution company. I was actually in--what I started was airplane mechanic. I served in the army in the beginning as an airplane mechanics, and then after six or seven, I decided I don't like it anymore. And I volunteered to be on bomb squad, bomb disposals, so I made the rest of my reserve service--(Hebrew)-- 00:26:00We made--I made my service, the rest of my years at reserve service in the bomb squad with all the wars that occurred those years.

FERNHEIMER: Yeah, that's what, '67-'73. (laughs)

JEREMIAS: It was no picnic, but the first -----------(??) war, second -----------(??) war, all kinds of events and fightings here and there. And now, it's a certain--and I was--after my father wanted to go out for pension, I decided I don't want to be in the business anymore. He sold the business, and I started first to work as a--in the United Nations forces in the Middle East as a freelance procurement, 00:27:00all kinds of technical things and repairs and so on, and also a little bit in food. And it was a few years that it started to be too corrupted for me, too problematic, and I didn't like the job anymore, so I was looking what to do. And all these years, I was cooking for my friends fish, and they tried to convince me throughout the years that I have to open a fish restaurant, and I said okay. I opened a fish restaurant, and I started to make my own recipes, but the public was not ripe.

FERNHEIMER: What year was this? This was in Nahariya, right, at first?

JEREMIAS: Yeah. The public was not ripe to things like this. They all expected to eat fried fish mainly or the spicy fish that were made here and there. But to be open for 00:28:00fish in cream sauce or the gorgonzola or something like this, it was completely out.

FERNHEIMER: What year, nineteen--

JEREMIAS: --1988, I started. So actually, I opened the restaurant for the public in '98--'89, so '89, and that's it--

FERNHEIMER: --so the public wasn't ready for it at first. When, when did that begin to change?

JEREMIAS: It was slowly, it was very slowly. I just kind of created--

FERNHEIMER: --and did you keep doing the same thing--

JEREMIAS: --I created a kind of fan club, you know, so--and start to roll. The first three years, I lost money, and the fourth year, I was balanced. For three years what kept me on track 00:29:00is the fact that I lost every year less money.

FERNHEIMER: (laughs)

JEREMIAS: And I said at one point it might--it must pass the, the balance situation and start to win some money, earn me some money. It took four years. Only in the fifth year, I started to see a little bit of--I could take a salary, you know.

FERNHEIMER: And at that time, how, how big was the restaurant? Was it called Uri Buri at that time?

JEREMIAS: Yes.

FERNHEIMER: So tell me about the name. I know this as a very famous story, but just--

JEREMIAS: --just you know, Buri is a gray mullet. I went fishing in the (Hebrew) and it was also (Hebrew). He also died a few years ago.

FERNHEIMER: I'm sorry to hear.

JEREMIAS: And I went fishing with him. He was not, was not experienced 00:30:00in fishing. And we came back -----------(??) when you have this east wing (??). Then you have (Hebrew) and a gooey (??) fish is usually swimming on the surface, they go down so they're easier to catch, and I caught a lot of -----------(??) fish. And when we came home, my father asked, "Who caught all these fish?" I say, "I did." He said, "What did Uzi catch?" I said, "Nothing." So as you say Uri Buri and uzi buzi. Uzi buzi means kind of shame on you, yeah? And he started to call me Uri Buri because of this.

FERNHEIMER: This was your dad?

JEREMIAS: No, Uzi.

FERNHEIMER: Uzi, okay, the friend who didn't catch. (both laugh)

JEREMIAS: Yeah, he tried--he started to call me Uri Buri. 00:31:00And then some people say Uri Buri, and when we had to find a name for the restaurant, Uri Buri was one option, and people felt it's a good combination, you know, it's something different. And I didn't want to make another, another fish restaurant; I wanted, wanted to make something different. It took only years until I was able to really do what I wanted to do. But I was stubborn, and I was persistent, and it took time, but today, the main thing people eat here is a tasting menu which is all these things that I developed throughout the years, and all the special dishes. (Hebrew) 00:32:00And I have all these special dishes that you can't find somewhere else. Maybe you'd like to try a few small things so you can understand what we're talking about.

FERNHEIMER: That would be great. So you know, I, I--I've read that you like your recipes simple, but you like to stick with no more than eight ingredients.

JEREMIAS: Yes.

FERNHEIMER: Tell me about that. Where does that sense of simplicity--I'll use the word minimalism, but I don't know if that's how you describe it.

JEREMIAS: What is it?

FERNHEIMER: Minimalism, like the kind of simplicity.

JEREMIAS: No, no, no, no, it's not--first of all, I principally don't have princeps (??).

FERNHEIMER: You don't have what?

JEREMIAS: I principally don't have princeps.

FERNHEIMER: Okay, great.

JEREMIAS: So it's not something that I say principally, I don't use more. It has some meaning, and the meaning is that we have limited ability to feel and recognize things in food or anything else, that somewhere, we get lost. And if you use ingredients that get lost, why do you add them? It's not logical.

FERNHEIMER: I agree.

JEREMIAS: Logically thinking is that you should add things, whatever will compliment other things and add some kind of flavor or sheek (??) that is making this a special thing. And if we always have my dishes, we'll always have a main issue, and the other materials will come to support it, to lift it, you know? And if you use more than eight ingredients, 00:33:00some will get lost, so you have to stop, not necessarily in eight, but you have to stop where you don't need anything more, or you feel you don't need anything more to make it tastier or the flair to the carrier. You see?

FERNHEIMER: What's your process for developing recipes?

JEREMIAS: No process, no written process. And we don't say, "Now, we're going to do something new." It is just needs, you know, we're having a special meal. Someone asked to have something that would be based on God knows what, and I say okay, I have to do something now. So I, I think what, what would fit, what can be the, the--and it's usually things that you won't find somewhere else. And let's try something so you can get an 00:34:00 idea.

FERNHEIMER: Sounds great.

JEREMIAS: You haven't been here before.

FERNHEIMER: No. We've walked by, and we were with our young son, he was at the time five, and we thought we really wanted to do the tasting menu, but we have a five-year-old kid, how is this gonna go?

JEREMIAS: It's going. (Hebrew)

FERNHEIMER: (Hebrew) So at a certain point, you moved the restaurant. You were doing well enough that you moved from Nahariya to Akko.

JEREMIAS: Yeah.

FERNHEIMER: Tell me about your decision to do that.

JEREMIAS: Though I just want to tell you that this was not my decision then.

FERNHEIMER: 00:35:00Oh, okay. (both laugh)

JEREMIAS: No, but regarding--

FERNHEIMER: --how did it happen then--

JEREMIAS: --regarding the food, I will always serve only things that I like to eat, because I never serve a dish I don't like. The second thing is, all the things that are in the plate are edible--not only edible, they also belong to the balance of taste. I will use the best raw materials I can find and using--trying to use no more than eight ingredients, but it's not from the Bible.

FERNHEIMER: (laughs)

JEREMIAS: It is God closes his eyes after the ninth.

FERNHEIMER: (laughs) I like that.

JEREMIAS: (laughs) And this is in, in general. 00:36:00And again, mainly you--one very important thing is that it is--the things we add are keeping always the main thing as for make cooking. Besides that, it is the cooking, and the rest is there to support. They make the shrimp, then the shrimp, and you take the main issue, and you support it. That's general and no, no, no additives that don't add to the balance just with the collation (??) -----------(??) flowers that--things like this, this in general. You asked about moving from Nahariya.

FERNHEIMER: Yeah.

JEREMIAS: We had, we had a problem with the corrupt and 00:37:00nasty mayor in Nahariya. And he was very offended that I was not supporting him politically, and he was really giving me--trying to give me a hard time. And I decided that I don't need his leadership, and I'm going to succeed without his, whatever, disturbance. So I opened this place here, and that was really -----------(??).

FERNHEIMER: How did you decide on Akko?

JEREMIAS: I love Akko and the beauty -----------(??).

FERNHEIMER: Wow, so beautiful.

JEREMIAS: You can start with the soup. You drink the soup.

FERNHEIMER: Can I take a picture first?

JEREMIAS: Yeah.

FERNHEIMER: 00:38:00So this is what kind of soup?

JEREMIAS: Mushroom.

FERNHEIMER: Mushroom. Are you--that's beautiful.

JEREMIAS: You know, Mari (??) is a German magazine?

UNKNOWN: Really?

JEREMIAS: Yeah. (Hebrew)

UNKNOWN: Thank you.

JEREMIAS: It is a food magazine. (Hebrew)

FERNHEIMER: It's beautiful. I'm not sure what it is yet. [restaurant noise] 00:40:00It's wow, beautiful.

UNKNOWN: Yeah, it is.

FERNHEIMER: (Hebrew) (laughs)

JEREMIAS: -----------(??)

FERNHEIMER: (Hebrew) Beautiful.

JEREMIAS: 00:41:00This is scallops with a bay of juice of the matashock (??) and fresh spirulina a jus.

FERNHEIMER: Oh, wow, that's spirulina?

JEREMIAS: What?

FERNHEIMER: That's spirulina?

JEREMIAS: Yes.

FERNHEIMER: I've only seen it in like, you know.

JEREMIAS: Powder.

FERNHEIMER: Yeah.

JEREMIAS: Terrible.

FERNHEIMER: It's so beautiful!

JEREMIAS: Taste it, taste it as is. Now I will show you how to eat it--

FERNHEIMER: --yes, thank you--

JEREMIAS: --because you have to eat it together.

FERNHEIMER: Okay.

JEREMIAS: (Hebrew). Yes, that's it.

FERNHEIMER: (Hebrew)

JEREMIAS: (Hebrew)

FERNHEIMER: Wow. We grow Jerusalem artichokes 00:42:00in our backyard. They're actually native to Kentucky. They're part of, you know, they--once they take hold, you can't get rid of them. That's really beautiful.

JEREMIAS: People have a tendency to take small bites. You can't taste anything in small bites because it doesn't reach the right place, the, the, the how you call, the textures of tastes.

FERNHEIMER: The, the tastebuds?

JEREMIAS: Yeah. So you, you, you can always only take a very small part of the impression. If you take a mouthful, you can--

FERNHEIMER: Wow, the creaminess of the 00:43:00 artichoke.

JEREMIAS: (Hebrew) The different textures, different tastes.

FERNHEIMER: So how long did it take you to like, you know, come to each one of the items on the tasting menu to develop it, to perfect it, or to decide what made it there?

JEREMIAS: I didn't understand the question.

FERNHEIMER: Like all of--I assume these are things that are on the tasting menu, but maybe I'm making that a false assumption.

JEREMIAS: There is no tasting menu.

FERNHEIMER: No tasting menu.

JEREMIAS: No, there's no tasting menu that is fixed.

FERNHEIMER: Ah, okay.

JEREMIAS: The tasting menu is a menu that is only meant to be small dishes that you share. And what you share depends on asking people of allergies, dislikings, 00:44:00fitting, and like someone likes spicy, someone doesn't like spicy, kinds of things like this. And we are trying to make a meal that you have would be rich in tastes, but not in one dish, but in many dishes, many tastes. There is no dish--all, all these dishes are very different, each one, and made from different raw materials and different categories, if you can call it--I don't know what category you can put this or this or this in, you know, it's not belonging to any, any group. You -----------(??), you tend to have things that have maybe a little bit of more Asian flair or, or something else. But generally, this doesn't have to be--it doesn't belong to something. It's not Asian, it's not fusion, 00:45:00it's not--it's things that only likes things. And if you like it, join the club.

FERNHEIMER: (laughs) I am definitely a fan, I'm definitely a member of the club.

JEREMIAS: (laughs) Okay.

FERNHEIMER: But through this club, through this, you know, things that Uri likes to eat, you know, you've become a founding father of what people talk about as Israeli food or Israeli cuisine.

JEREMIAS: But it--I'm, I'm not trying to be any--it is, it is just a style that I don't even call it a definite -----------(??) Israel cuisine or so. It is a cuisine that you can call Israeli cuisine, but it, it does not represent anything because you won't find these things under other color or plate or something like this. It is, it is my kitchen.

FERNHEIMER: 00:46:00So, so that's interesting that, you know, you--it's your taste, your kitchen, and yet other people put it in this category of Israeli food.

JEREMIAS: Yes, it's okay, I'm accepting it because it's made in Israel by an Israeli that has a bit of a different idea. If you can take Italian food, and someone will make some fish like you make spaghetti, I don't know--(both laugh)--it's still Italian food. (laughs)

FERNHEIMER: So how do you see, I guess, how do you define Israeli food? Let's start with that.

JEREMIAS: I'm not defining, and if it is made in Israel by Israelis. And there is for me, I like vegetables, it's up to me to be included. Because in Europe, for example, 00:47:00they use very little vegetables. In Germany, they have several people for breakfast and one tomato, so it's not--one tomato is not my cup of tea. (laughs) And we eat a lot of vegetables. We eat also raw and not so much cook. Today, I'm cooking, baking and so on a little bit more vegetables because you can make fantastic combinations. But here we have, this is something very special. It is dried watermelon.

FERNHEIMER: Dried watermelon?

JEREMIAS: Yes, it is, it is stuffed with a yogurt, a--not--and black olives, basil, and sherry vinegar.

FERNHEIMER: And sherry harry (??)?

JEREMIAS: 00:48:00 Vinegar.

FERNHEIMER: Vinegar, wow.

JEREMIAS: You can eat it all in one piece and chew slowly or cut it in two as you wish. But you, you have to chew it slowly to feel the taste, and you don't have to eat a lot of these. It's just a kind of surprise, I would say.

FERNHEIMER: Yeah. It's--in the south, in the U.S., there's a lot of pickled watermelon. I'm excited to try this.

JEREMIAS: And you have the aftertaste.

FERNHEIMER: It almost has the mouth feel of like a roasted pepper.

JEREMIAS: Yeah, roasted pepper, yeah.

FERNHEIMER: Like that's what it kind--the texture feels like it, but the flavor is amazing, 00:49:00yeah. And what's this on top?

JEREMIAS: Basil.

FERNHEIMER: Basil, wow. Yeah, it's a really powerful burst of flavors. I love it. So are you mostly inspired by what you see around locally? Do you go to the market every day, or how do you--where do you draw your inspiration?

JEREMIAS: It comes and goes. Sometimes I feel like I have to do something. I go to the market, and I, I see something like a -----------(??). I taste it and see it's sweet and say okay, I have to do something with it. And I go back home, and then I try to make the basic things, and I find--I think what can complement it, and that's it. I will show you and you can see it. This is, 00:50:00you see this here is eggplants that are broiled on open fire. You can taste them, taste it.

FERNHEIMER: Mm.

JEREMIAS: Yeah, this is nothing just--

FERNHEIMER: --eggplant--

JEREMIAS: --a touch eggplant, a touch of salt.

FERNHEIMER: Of? Of?

JEREMIAS: Salt.

FERNHEIMER: Salt.

JEREMIAS: This is a meagre fish.

FERNHEIMER: Which fish?

JEREMIAS: This one is a meagre fish. It is smoked in pine needles.

FERNHEIMER: Oh, wow.

JEREMIAS: Yeah, taste it, and you will see--you can take it with your hand and eat it like a sandwich.

FERNHEIMER: Okay. Thanks for the permission.

JEREMIAS: Yeah, it's easiest way. And the next is 00:51:00nigella seeds on top.

FERNHEIMER: Mm, mmm. That's so yummy. The fish, the texture of the fish is kind of chewy.

JEREMIAS: Yeah, I say it is a matter of taste and texture. And still with all the power of the eggplant, the fish is still--

FERNHEIMER: --present--

JEREMIAS: --yeah.

FERNHEIMER: And the bread is crunchy, and the nigella seeds, I love nigella seeds.

JEREMIAS: Yeah. So if you don't, if you don't--not with minor edible things, it is things that have character, but they still let the fish rule, yeah.

FERNHEIMER: 00:52:00What was the green garnish on top?

JEREMIAS: This was pea--

FERNHEIMER: --pea sprouts, yeah, on both, right, pea sprouts--

JEREMIAS: --it gives a fresh green something.

FERNHEIMER: Yeah, beautiful. Where do you get your produce from for the restaurant? Do you get it at the market, or do you grow it?

JEREMIAS: Wherever I can.

FERNHEIMER: Huh?

JEREMIAS: Wherever I can. It's not--and you know, the one point is that in every -----------(??) like this, you say, "I could eat another bite," you know? But you haven't--have discovered the taste, you have understood the thing. Eating another one is just having more of the same. And changing now to something else, I hate this 00:53:00if you I give you, you know, something on the spoon that is, you know, like nothing, and you have to take a little taste, and you didn't understand all that happens. It has to be two-three bites to get all the flair.

FERNHEIMER: Yeah. There's pepper too, pepper? It's spicy -----------(??).

JEREMIAS: In, in, in the eggplant they have--eggplant itself is a bit powerful because of the fire.

FERNHEIMER: It's delicious. So I understand that where we're sitting now didn't exist a few years ago because the restaurant was targeted during the violence.

JEREMIAS: No, the place--

FERNHEIMER: --the restaurant was here, but not this specific version--

JEREMIAS: --no.

FERNHEIMER: Tell me about what that was like to have--some--I read the news reports about what happened that night. You were here, then you were at the hotel, and then the hotel was on fire, then this was on fire. 00:54:00Tell me about that experience.

JEREMIAS: The experience was completely different than one can imagine because I was not thinking about being disappointed. Also, I had these neighbors here that came to help me. And I understood that some bad people did something that is very bad. But the only thing I have, I have the best team in the world. I, I was worried about losing--so one question is, how can I keep the team in this troubled time. And the only thing I understood is, we have to find an alternative place. So two weeks later, we are already working, everybody in the new place. And this was the most important point--(Hebrew)--

FERNHEIMER: And then this, 00:55:00the rebuilt version opened when, in 2021?

JEREMIAS: 2022 January; 2021 was the fire, yeah. So I want to show you something, when I say a simple kitchen.

FERNHEIMER: Okay.

JEREMIAS: I want to show you something. The ace on the base is good raw material.

FERNHEIMER: Hmm?

JEREMIAS: The ace on the base is good race--good raw materials. And the main thing is, don't spoil it, don't ruin it.

FERNHEIMER: It's okay to leave this here, yeah?

JEREMIAS: Yeah, you can leave there, leave.

FERNHEIMER: Okay. I'm gonna take this with us, is that okay?

JEREMIAS: Yes.

FERNHEIMER: Okay.

JEREMIAS: First of all, you can see a kitchen that is not hot, no sweating. Theres light, space, and quiet, no announcing, no shouting, no everything.

FERNHEIMER: Yeah, the light is beautiful. [restaurant noise]

JEREMIAS: -----------(??) I want to show you how basic things that we have -----------(??).

FERNHEIMER: You know what--okay. Hang on, I'm gonna pause this part. May I put this down here so I can do--okay--all right. -----------(??)-----------

JEREMIAS: Now I will show you how you can make a base for -----------(??) and keep the quality of the -----------(??). [restaurant noise]

I want to show you, this is the base. Now you take this base, -----------(??) a nice, good fish can be marinated properly with -----------(??) sauce. 01:00:00-----------(??) [restaurant noise]

(Hebrew) 01:04:00[restaurant noise]

FERNHEIMER: [resumes near recorder] Thank you. 01:05:00Wow, it's beautiful. Mm. So (laughter) this is--

JEREMIAS: This is cauliflower.

FERNHEIMER: And the fish is what kind?

JEREMIAS: Barramundi.

FERNHEIMER: (Hebrew)

JEREMIAS: (Hebrew)

FERNHEIMER: (Hebrew)

JEREMIAS: 01:06:00As you wish.

FERNHEIMER: (Hebrew) So you said there's no one fixed menu. Does that--does the menu change seasonally?

JEREMIAS: Sometimes we get different fish.

FERNHEIMER: It's just cauliflower, that's it? It's so creamy.

JEREMIAS: Yeah. You need a blender to mix it.

FERNHEIMER: It's really good. It's so decadent and the fish is so delicate and the creaminess of the cauliflower is amazing.

JEREMIAS: You need no bit of anything else to add. Every extra thing you will add, the food be too much. Here you have many more ingredients; here you have three, 01:07:00a lemon butter, a filet, and sauce, yeah. But you don't feel the need, like I need some mint or some pepper or some anything else, not needed. It has its own character. And naturally for me, everything you add would just--

FERNHEIMER: --take away--

JEREMIAS: --yeah, it will not add.

FERNHEIMER: What has it been like since you've reopened in the same location in the last few years?

JEREMIAS: I have--I, I was a bomb disposer in my life for almost thirty years, more than thirty years. So I'm not 01:08:00 -----------(??).

FERNHEIMER: (laughs)

JEREMIAS: And it's not something that really scares me or lose my balance. I can carry and fight these situations.

FERNHEIMER: Has it changed--

JEREMIAS: --you have this one, and now you can see how this is different. You can take it now by hand and just -----------(??), put it into the sauce a little bit, and you see it's different, completely different than what you had--

FERNHEIMER: --mm. What is the sauce? It's wonderful, the sauces.

JEREMIAS: But you see here, 01:09:00it added something. The shrimp was excellent, but this is something else, it has changed all of this, and each of the products has some role to play.

FERNHEIMER: This is pasta or?

JEREMIAS: No, this is black rice noodles.

FERNHEIMER: Black rice noodles, beautiful. And the vegetable here is?

JEREMIAS: Artichoke.

FERNHEIMER: So how did you perfect your style over the years, practice?

JEREMIAS: It's just a linear thing, you know, you learn, and you apply what you've learned. It is never standing still.

FERNHEIMER: Mm, I like that, it's nice.

JEREMIAS: But you see how it grew, yeah?

FERNHEIMER: 01:10:00 Yeah.

JEREMIAS: You see how it started when it was young and not with the sauces yet.

FERNHEIMER: The evolution.

JEREMIAS: Yeah. (both laugh)

FERNHEIMER: It's like the larva. (laughs)

JEREMIAS: But you can take the same shrimp and make it with spicy avocado, and you have a completely different dish. So on this base, we are making mainly about four-five different--we have the ability to make four, five, six dishes, which makes the kitchen much simpler. And it is all small details that gather to what the -----------(??).

FERNHEIMER: What is important for you when you're creating the experience? I mean this experience is beautiful for me. I did not expect to be fed this well during my interview. But when people come to the restaurant, what's your vision for the experience that they have, and also at the hotel?

JEREMIAS: 01:11:00It is--there are many kinds of particulars to food. One of them is when you're hungry, to satisfy your hunger. And this is a different task. Another one is something that is kind of a -----------(??) sense experience that you come to a restaurant where everything is very decorated, and the plate is filled with flowers, and so on. And the food is one part of the whole event, you know? And what we are 01:12:00representing here is simplicity in everything that is around, and we concentrate in what is on the plate. It's a lot to do all that. It is not nice or ugly; it is a style you can like or not. And all the big show around food is kind of the culture that has a lot of meaning for some people, you know, and when you concentrate on the taste, you have a completely different experience. And also I think that we have here no music and we have here no noises or trying to keep it as low as possible so people can talk, 01:13:00can come with some friends together, enjoy a meal that sharing it where they will share the experience by all means. And they don't have to eat in half an hour or forty five minutes; they can sit two and a half hours and enjoy a meal that will be also an event, a social event for them. And this is the style, it is not competing with any other style. Because if you like to go into the restaurants that are so loud, you can't hear yourself talking, and are so full with all kinds of moody senses satisfaction, then it is something that is very different, and you have to like it or not. 01:14:00If I'm going to restaurant that is too loud, and I can't talk to anyone, and I have to read the lips of the waitress and understand what she's talking about, I think that I will--before I make an order, I will be out already because it disturbs me. Some people will look and say oh, here, something goes on, you know, here it is a happy place, so they're there, and they're happy where they find it. So I can't measure by good and bad. And by the way, the loud places are quite Israeli, the quiet place is not so Israeli.

FERNHEIMER: Yeah. As you're talking, and I'm thinking, it's so interesting, things that are in some ways antithesis to what people 01:15:00think about as Israeli, whatever that means to them. But simple, quiet, able to focus, -----------(??), this is a very different understanding of Israeli culture than I think a lot of people bring.

JEREMIAS: Yes, but still there is something, and this is the freedom to cook the way you want and make combinations that are not daily food everywhere, and then find the people that will define it as Israeli because it is so--because it has say of itself, plus you have liberty to have vegetables, to have all kinds of things, and you can take the most basic things in food and put them together. Like the salad, make you a small salad, 01:16:00and it is seconds-made, it's not--(Hebrew). The mango salad. You like this.

FERNHEIMER: Yeah. I haven't had anything I haven't liked so far. I like that's you have the sense of the textures, that's what's really beautiful.

JEREMIAS: It's textures and taste--

FERNHEIMER: --and flavors--

JEREMIAS: --and a few kinds of lemon things because people--here you have wine--rice vinegar and lemon together, and this gives a special lemonish flavor.

FERNHEIMER: Yeah.

JEREMIAS: 01:17:00And it doesn't matter, only it is the--

FERNHEIMER: It's light and bright.

JEREMIAS: And you don't have the salt, you don't need so much salt, some things let go, and it raises the--it emphasizes some other tastes, and so is--I'm always telling the story about the man who came--I came out of the kitchen, and a big man comes and hugs me. And I look at him, and I say, "Did you--" You see, this is in how many seconds?

FERNHEIMER: Three? (laughs) 01:18:00Oh my. (Hebrew) Thank you. So what made you decide to open up the hotel after working in the food industry for so long? And I understand there's an ice cream shop in the mix as well? I'm sorry, I caught you mid-bite. (laughs) [restaurant noise] 01:19:00Mm. Nice. [restaurant noise]

All the little herbs are delicious, excellent to get things stuck in your teeth.

JEREMIAS: Yeah.

FERNHEIMER: How many people come in and out of the restaurant on average? Is it mostly by reservation?

JEREMIAS: -----------(??) two hundred.

FERNHEIMER: Two hundred?

JEREMIAS: A special day like Saturday is around three hundred. And then the most 01:23:00-----------(??) days is three hundred fifty up to four hundred.

FERNHEIMER: Wow. And is that pretty consistent year-round, or does it vary by season? Like is there a busy season?

JEREMIAS: During weekdays, usually it's like two hundred people. Today, these days are a little bit -----------(??)

FERNHEIMER: Because of the heat.

JEREMIAS: Because of the heat, because you can't sit outside, and -----------(??) atmosphere right -----------(??).

FERNHEIMER: Yeah. And how many people are working in the kitchen?

JEREMIAS: We have altogether--like in the hotel and the restaurant and the ice cream shop, we have altogether like seventy five people.FERNHEIMER: 01:24:00So I wonder if you could tell me a little bit about how you think about the relationship between food, culture, and national identity.

JEREMIAS: What was the question again?

FERNHEIMER: How do you think about the relationship between food, culture, and national identity? So like--

JEREMIAS: I can't tell you, it's not something you can measure by quantity and compare one to the other. It is own--what is important is the standard, you are measuring each one of them. If it is something that is mental or practical, 01:25:00or everyone has a different way to see it. I give a very quality and sustainability and friendship and things like this, and for example, financial, I am less interested it the thing. I think very few people could have--I don't know many people that started a business like a restaurant, and in four years didn't take a salary, yeah. And I did it because I decided that I liked it, and I see that I can improve. I'm, I'm the one responsible if it will be work or not. And people who blame all the world and their sister, but not themselves. And once you realize that you are the master of your life, 01:26:00and you have to decide the decisions, and not to break because something is not to get--not to works according to some other people's expectations. Build your self-expectations, stand in it, and decide that you want to continue because the work is not as you want it, because people sit and whine, you know, when something went wrong. And I never found myself in situations like this. I always say okay, you're responsible, take responsibility. Don't find anyone else to blame. Then people -----------(??) problems with everybody when he say that the success is many fathers and the failure is--(Hebrew)--one -----------(??) parents is an orphan, 01:27:00yeah. The failure is an orphan, nobody would take responsibility on it.

FERNHEIMER: Yeah. So what do you think--you know, I understand that's a really--that's a long time to go without profit and to be able to go without a salary. And yet you've been here now for like, what's it, more than thirty years?

JEREMIAS: Thirty five years.

FERNHEIMER: Thirty five years, so obviously it was maybe slow at the start, but it has caught on--(laughs)--made an impression. And how do you think you fit with the rest of the community here in Akko? Have you ever been--I mean obviously you were targeted specifically for the way that people perceived you and this restaurant as a symbol of the kind of coexistence.

JEREMIAS: That's the reason. 01:28:00I mean I would be offended if they were doing someone else, or didn't I do good enough?

FERNHEIMER: I wonder if, you know, how do you see food as fitting in with that path of coexistence. There's a lot of arguments about what is Israeli food or "they stole our food" or those kinds of things. There's another way of thinking about it. The food provides a way to break bread at the same table, to come together with other people. Where do you sit with respect to food in a very challenging place to live?

JEREMIAS: This restaurant is a proof of concept. 01:29:00(Hebrew) Do you want to drink something?

FERNHEIMER: Just yeah, zero, thank you.

JEREMIAS: -----------(??) from my point of view.

FERNHEIMER: I'm sorry.

JEREMIAS: From my point of view, the same way that we have to take responsibility, you have to see -----------(??) what are our expectations, and how can we contribute if this will succeed, and our coming generation will have a better future. 01:30:00And how can I contribute that it will happen? (Hebrew) So if I look forward, and I want to see how I want things to be and what can contribute for it to happen, I say the only way that we can assure a better future for our coming generations is by learning to live together, all the -----------(??) all the normative people, and push to where they belong to, 01:31:00the radicals. They need three things. One is education, which is very important, or is the most important tool for assuring this, the other is by policing, and the other one is by thought. In the meantime, the radicals are taking it too far in enormous governing of our daily life with all their nonsense and very narrow sight, while we are busy with arguing and small tales that it would five something into the left or five something into the right, yeah. We have to learn to live together, and we have to learn that we have the same 01:32:00interest at the end, and how can we achieve this. So this little restaurant is for me a proof of concept. I'm not a philosopher, I'm not a politician, and I don't want to be. So my way to contribute my share is by taking this -----------(??) of mine and treat them in a place like this in place of a daily life. And here you have people from Ukraine and from Russia. Muslims, Jews, Arabs of all kinds of congregations, Christians and so on, Muslim, whatever. All the colors, all the languages, 01:33:00and you see how it functions, functions well, there's a friendship here. Noah (??) is twenty eight years with us, -----------(??) is twenty years with us, Elana (??) is eleven years, Savia (??) is fifteen years, Achmed (??) is eleven years, Shapall (??) is fifteen years, and another one, and everybody is contributing his part. And mainly, you don't find restaurants -----------(??) and very few around here. Like I have people staying for such a long time, and they don't always--yeah.

FERNHEIMER: Yeah, the restaurant business is hot, and it's hard work.

JEREMIAS: 01:34:00Yes, but you see how it works, see how it functions. And I think that this is my part, so like there's no philosophy of how you make another dollar or so, not, not--I think that the outcome of what I'm doing -----------(??) financial success, yeah. The financial success is not coming when you put pressure on it, and you do everything just counting the penya (??). In the end, it falls apart. By having a kind of a way you're in, and the way you are recruiting, the things and the questions, and the way you are evaluating things, this is what we need for success.

FERNHEIMER: 01:35:00What do you think is next for you in Israeli food? What are some of the things you're seeing? I understand you're working on, or your invested in--I'm not sure which--a new agritech company, Gavan?

JEREMIAS: Gavan--(Hebrew)--it's field technology -----------(??), they discovered a way to separate -----------(??) certain proteins from biomass, and it can be used in multidisciplinary ways, like colors, for making fat out of plants--not oil, fat--and 01:36:00many other things in the field of food, medicine, cosmetics, whatever.

FERNHEIMER: Do you--is it still in the lab phase, or are there things that they're inventing that are making their way into the kitchen?

JEREMIAS: Well, we are making also the--we make quite tasty ice creams, we make based on this, but this is not commercial yet, it is just in the--

FERNHEIMER: --so they're like tuvoni (??) -----------(??) ice cream--

JEREMIAS: --it is not -----------(??), it is -----------(??), it has very low calories, very low saturated fat.

FERNHEIMER: But it tastes good?

JEREMIAS: Yes, very much so, and so many--

FERNHEIMER: --it sounds like a dream. (laughs)

JEREMIAS: Yeah, it is. 01:37:00Actually, we got second place out of, I think 160 companies in Europe.

FERNHEIMER: Wow.

JEREMIAS: It was in the EIT, European Innovation and Technology, and from the European Union, and we have interest from companies all over the world, collaborate with them, and it's unbelievable.

FERNHEIMER: When did that get started, Gavan?

JEREMIAS: Six years ago, -----------(??).

FERNHEIMER: How long do you think before the ice cream hits commercial markets? It sounds amazing.

JEREMIAS: We have--we were now with Haagen-Dazs in Paris. We were kind of ten companies they have chosen that might make a difference in their -----------(??). But our ice cream is a too much a revolution because it 01:38:00doesn't make the small change, it makes a whole change, you know? They, they want to improve, not to change. And that we have--you want to see?

FERNHEIMER: Yeah, sure.

JEREMIAS: (Hebrew) I'll let you try some ice cream.

FERNHEIMER: Okay. May I taste a little? -----------(??)

JEREMIAS: (Hebrew)

FERNHEIMER: It looks that way. 01:39:00So this is the biotech ice cream?

JEREMIAS: No, it's not ice cream. Use cream, you use the cream. You can smell it, it has absolutely no smell, it has no taste, nothing. You have here the same with chocolate, with cocoa.

FERNHEIMER: Mm, smells great.

JEREMIAS: -----------(??) 01:40:00You taste. It is like tribunes (??).

FERNHEIMER: Like milky. Mm, it's really good.

JEREMIAS: This is cocoa, chocolate, no sugar.

FERNHEIMER: No sugar?

JEREMIAS: No.

FERNHEIMER: Wow, how does it get sweet?

JEREMIAS: -----------(??)

FERNHEIMER: (laughs)

JEREMIAS: It's interesting.

FERNHEIMER: Yeah.

JEREMIAS: (Hebrew) And we make our ice cream 01:41:00(Hebrew) So the important thing in tasting is not only to get something that tastes good, but also is not that someone makes tabbouleh and everybody makes tabbouleh , you know? The things you eat here, you won't find anywhere. And once you find some somewhere else, we are advancing, because there is very little 01:42:00innovation in cooking and a lot of following. Like I said before, like many people say, "Look what succeeds, we will make the same." Like to say, I don't know if you were here, we had (Hebrew) with a cinnamon stick, make kaboboliz (??), and everybody was doing it in Israel. It was going for about two years, and then suddenly disappeared, nobody wanted it anymore. And some new things, you know, and then they make all kinds of trends, you know. You won't have here trends, because--not because it's good or not good. It's about our clients. (Hebrew)

FERNHEIMER: 01:43:00Thank you, yeah. (laughs) Yeah. So I guess are there any things that I haven't asked you that you want to make sure go on the record for my students. Is there any kind of advice you have for students who are trying to understand what it is, this thing, food in Israel Palestine, or just general life advice?

JEREMIAS: I would say make--I mean one of--either one, or make copies, but in a very high level, you know, make it good, or make your own kitchen, and trust yourself. And take time to find your right clients.

FERNHEIMER: Who are most of the clients who come here, 01:44:00local, international?

JEREMIAS: This is -----------(??).

FERNHEIMER: What is that?

JEREMIAS: This is sage. (Hebrew)

FERNHEIMER: Mm, that's really good. Wow.

JEREMIAS: Good, yeah?

FERNHEIMER: That's amazing.

JEREMIAS: Good.

FERNHEIMER: Yeah.

JEREMIAS: This is cardamom.

FERNHEIMER: Cardamom?

JEREMIAS: (Hebrew) You can use the same 01:45:00things also.

FERNHEIMER: I can, okay.

JEREMIAS: This is black pepper.

FERNHEIMER: Black pepper. Amazing.

JEREMIAS: Surprising.

FERNHEIMER: Really good. -----------(??) wow, the sage is my favorite so far.

JEREMIAS: And this is--you know after ate?

FERNHEIMER: Hmm?

JEREMIAS: After ate.

FERNHEIMER: Yeah.

JEREMIAS: This is--

FERNHEIMER: --it's like chocolate and mint? No--

JEREMIAS: --chocolate and mint, but this is a sorbet with chocolate.

FERNHEIMER: Mm, wow. (both laugh) 01:46:00Wow. Wow. Wow, very surprising and very delicious, all of them. That, I think, is the most unusual I've had.

JEREMIAS: Have you had geranium ice cream?

FERNHEIMER: Geranium ice cream, no. (Hebrew)

JEREMIAS: -----------(??) I have too much. (Hebrew)

FERNHEIMER: It's like (Hebrew) creamy and amazing, wow.

JEREMIAS: Now we're open here. We're bringing a food truck and putting it on this terrace and making the ice creams.

FERNHEIMER: Wow. 01:47:00So the truck comes at night?

JEREMIAS: No, no, it stays here.

FERNHEIMER: Okay, that's amazing, all of them are amazing.

JEREMIAS: This, the black pepper with a little bit of rose pepper.

FERNHEIMER: So good. Uri, this has been like a total treat, like a complete delight. Our next trip, we will come back, our kids will be old enough to enjoy. (laughs)

JEREMIAS: 01:48:00This is--

FERNHEIMER: --oh my god--(laughs)--I'm gonna turn into an ice cream cone--

JEREMIAS: --this is the geranium.

FERNHEIMER: Geranium, like the flowers. It's really nice, so bright.

JEREMIAS: Yeah, -----------(??).

FERNHEIMER: Wow, wow.

JEREMIAS: You wait a little bit, it will come through the nose.

FERNHEIMER: Where I come from in Kentucky, I don't know if you 01:49:00know anything about Kentucky bourbon, but I teach writing classes about how to write for like the industry. So when I teach the students, you know, in the U.S., you have to be twenty one to drink, but when they are, we teach them how to use the full palette to taste the bourbon. But yeah, those are beautiful notes.

JEREMIAS: Yes, these are special ice creams that you won't find everywhere.

FERNHEIMER: No--(laughs)--they're amazing. The black pep--

JEREMIAS: --these I like very much--

FERNHEIMER: --I like the black pepper. I love the sage. I'm gonna finish it unless you want some. This, it's okay?

JEREMIAS: Yeah.

FERNHEIMER: And that is amazing, it doesn't taste like sorbet, it's creamy enough to be ice cream.

JEREMIAS: And this is not to be salty, the black pepper.

FERNHEIMER: And the cardamom is beautiful too.

JEREMIAS: 01:50:00Yeah, each one in this place.

FERNHEIMER: You only sell in the shop, you don't package?

JEREMIAS: No. This is very special.

FERNHEIMER: What is that?

JEREMIAS: This is passionfruit, 100 percent passionfruit, the most sour passionfruit you ever ate. Usually people look for sweet fruits, and the sweeter, the better. But this is something, for me, very special. It is only passionfruit with a little bit of glucose to keep it together.

FERNHEIMER: Locus?

JEREMIAS: Glucose.

FERNHEIMER: Oh, glucose, okay.

JEREMIAS: Yeah. See, if you try it, you can understand how sour fruit can be 01:51:00open in chakas (??).

FERNHEIMER: Delicious, amazing. I don't know, each one is like, in its own place, delicious.

JEREMIAS: Yes, that's what's important to balances. I love this. At the end, it cleans.

FERNHEIMER: It's like a total palate cleanser, it's amazing, yeah. I don't know, I like them all. This is so unique.

JEREMIAS: Do like marzipan?

FERNHEIMER: I do like marzipan.

JEREMIAS: We have marzipan ice cream. Have you ever had it?

FERNHEIMER: No. (laughs)

JEREMIAS: -----------(??) 01:52:00marzipan. -----------(??) marzipan is very special, it's -----------(??).

FERNHEIMER: Mm, wow.

JEREMIAS: It is -----------(??) to serve between the dishes. It's now a little bit late to serve it, but--

FERNHEIMER: --that's really special. The, the like bouquet, mm--

JEREMIAS: --(laughs)--the bouquet, I like.

FERNHEIMER: It's like wow.

JEREMIAS: You smell the--it's really smelling.

FERNHEIMER: You get it this way and then that way. But you don't do wines and things like that--

JEREMIAS: --wine--

FERNHEIMER: --with the food, right, or do you?

JEREMIAS: Yes.

FERNHEIMER: You do.

JEREMIAS: I like wine.

FERNHEIMER: (laughs) Thank you.

JEREMIAS: This is very different.

FERNHEIMER: 01:53:00This was the marzipan -----------(??). Wow, that's -----------(??).

JEREMIAS: (laughs) Okay.

FERNHEIMER: I don't know that I would think to put marzipan and ava (??) together, but wow, so good.

JEREMIAS: Yeah, I like it. The problem is, I like all the food that we make here.

FERNHEIMER: (laughs) Right, so you can never go hungry.

JEREMIAS: No, and it's a problem.

FERNHEIMER: Oh my gosh, that is so--

JEREMIAS: --you know what you say about this. I say I wish I had what it costed, 01:54:00and my enemies should have what it's worth--

FERNHEIMER: --and it's a sorbet?

JEREMIAS: Sorbet.

FERNHEIMER: Amazing. Thank you for the honor of talking with you--

JEREMIAS: --you're welcome--

FERNHEIMER: --and tasting with you. This was really lovely. I'm really grateful.

JEREMIAS: And you can say most of the people are trying to show their kitchen as something very complicated and very advanced, and I'm saying the opposite.

FERNHEIMER: It's simple.

JEREMIAS: What's important is the balance of the taste 01:55:00and the mix of materials that you use, that all of them are at high standards, and there is nothing that creates a form. And at a certain point, you can eat this, and you don't have minute (??) to say it's too sweet or it's this or it's that. It's sweet, but definitely not too sweet.

FERNHEIMER: Not too sweet, no, not at all. Yeah, this is amazing, I'm really grateful.

JEREMIAS: It was meant to be. (laughs)

FERNHEIMER: Yeah, really succeeded

JEREMIAS: So one day, I was coming out of the kitchen, I told you, and a big man comes and hugs me.

FERNHEIMER: Yeah.

JEREMIAS: And I asked him, "Have we ever met before?" He said, "No, no, it's the first time I'm here." 01:56:00I said, "Did you eat here?" He said, "I just finished my meal." "Was the meal so good?" He said, "No, the meal was lousy." I said, "What is the hug for?" He said, "Last time we see each other."

FERNHEIMER: (laughs)

JEREMIAS: What I want to say is, "I don't need a hug, but I want to see you again." (both laugh)

FERNHEIMER: Well, I will give a hug if you will accept one because I love to give a hug. (both laugh)

JEREMIAS: It's not--it's about--it's--but I'm saying more the main thing is that people will have the wish to come again. And if we achieve this, then it is the other half of the importance.

FERNHEIMER: Yeah. Well, I want to come back and bring my whole family. I wish--we'll have to figure out a way to bring all the students to come to have the experiences, the full sensory experience of tasting all the balance and things, yeah. 01:57:00They're all excellent like--

JEREMIAS: --it's all different. You won't get any of this--

FERNHEIMER: --anywhere else--

JEREMIAS: --anywhere, yeah. And that's mainly the main point because this is not another restaurant making like the other one. And now you have to say the steak or the salad like he did, like -----------(??) or like someone else, and not interesting. This is the total of these things, our recipes, and it's genuine. And if you enjoy it, -----------(??) not the last time we see each other. (both laugh)

FERNHEIMER: Well thank you so much. I really appreciate the opportunity to have the interview, and more than that, to have the experience of sampling what--and seeing the elegance and the beauty and the simplicity. 01:58:00Before--I'm gonna stop the recorder now, unless there's something else you want to add.

[End of interview.]